Child Support Discussion Forum



Child Support — What does it all mean?
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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children — what, how and when?

Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.

Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.

For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.

Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.

From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society — not a free Australia — causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.

As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,

Share your opinion and experiences about the pros and cons of child support,
lifting the veil on a most horrid part of family breakup!

Start writing a comment now...

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    By: Rob from VIC, AUST on December 1, 2016 @ 3:27 am
    Eddie,

    I had the court tell me during divorce proceedings that 14 is the age for someone to decide to live with Mum or Dad. So Dad cant get into trouble if you choose to live with him, he is doing nothing wrong... :)
    By: Eddie from NSW, Australia on November 30, 2016 @ 8:28 pm
    I hate CSA i want to move to my dad's but apparently my dad and i cant do anything about it if we try to ask the government to move to my dad's i can't because they only listen to the mother. and in Australia the legal age to move out is 18! Anyway the reason i want to move out is because i HATE living with my mum she is very mental in the head it's causing me a lot of suffering. If my dad or i asks the government to move out my mum might tell the government that the problem is my dad and they might take him away from me or even worse take him to jail. So basically i have to live with my mum until i'm 18 :(.
    By: A from Victoria, Australia on November 30, 2016 @ 7:20 pm
    Kris, haha good point. My email address is anonymous though.
    By: Kris from nsw, ZOG on November 30, 2016 @ 6:54 pm
    Hi
    A , simple work for cash.
    Questions like yours i would not answer here as those csa fks surely read this site.
    By: A from Victoria, Australia on November 30, 2016 @ 12:23 am
    Hello,

    My situation is that I am going to be working as a contractor with my own Pty/Ltd entity.

    I am wondering if there is someone who could provide advice about how to minimise CSA payments in this scenario.

    I have read the law and a great deal of related information, but I would like to talk to someone who has been successful in a situation such as mine in structuring their affairs so to minimise CSA payments. Presumably this would mean legally minimising taxable income.

    I have read in this forum the idea that a father could refuse to contract with the CSA as their powers may depend upon common law. This reminds me of 'Sovereign Citizen' type theories about law that I don't personally think would be successful.

    What I want to do is legally structure my income so that child support is minimised.

    Please contact me by this email address yolafosas@zain.site if you can be of any help or could refer me to someone such as a tax lawyer who could help me.

    Thanks.
    By: Rob from VIC, AUST on November 28, 2016 @ 10:54 am
    SG66,

    I had a VRO (called AVO here) removed once but the x had to agree and we both had to go to court to have it removed. She claimed she would give me another chance, while I said the whole thing was BS in the first place. It took months and I got dragged through the meat grinder and all the legal people made $$ out of it. As far as i know that's the only way you can. Other than that is to sit it out and start your own new life. Don't give up and best you can do is hope the kids come back one day. I lost one son through all the BS who hasn't spoken to me in 7 years... For children to lose contact with a parent is very sad but the legal people don't care because they made $$ out of it and have unclean hands... Such is life.
    By: SG66 from Western Australia, Australia on November 26, 2016 @ 11:01 pm
    Anyway on Monday I'm going to lodge the forms in family court regarding the kids and even if I do have to have supervision I don't care.
    I was a full-time Dad I only worked 22 hours a week and cook cleaned did breakfasts washed clothes did the school drop off's you name it I was there, we had the home office.
    OK, enough going on SG.
    Anything you can think of that might help me get the kids and get rid of that f---- VRO. I know she will fight me all the way and hard too. She isn't scared of lying through her teeth by the way. At first, I'm going to offer 4 weeks of supervised visits min of 6 hours per week.
    Then I'm going to ask for the kids from school pick up Wednesday till school drop off Friday morning and then the next week school Friday afternoon to Monday morning school drop off, so 6 nights a fortnight and that way I don't have to see her too.
    The VRO is the other. I have been told that she wants it to stay on her because her friends and school mums and dads might find out what really happened.
    1450. By: SG66 from WA, Australia on November 26, 2016 @ 11:00 pm

    Because of that and trying to find a place it took 11 weeks to get the internet on and some office stuff from her it completely stuffed the business we had. She even told the two JP's in the court that my 13-year-old saw me taking pictures of my penis and sending them a friend. She also has texts supposed from the kids at 9.30 at night saying they are frightened of Daddy and even a letter from my 11-year-old saying how frighten she is, however, there are 3 different sets of handwriting in it.Sorry, I'm going on a bit. The only thing I can say is it is a rubbish and it was all to do with her getting sprung shifting money out to her old man. And that is another story a blood sucking long one. So the thing is I was set up to stay and set up for a big fall by them both on promises of many things.
    I have a letter from her saying I could supply the kids a phone so they can talk to me which I did and I saw all the kids on the day before my 4-year-old's birthday 22 May for two hours with their godmother present and gave them the phone then.
    All the kids were crying at the end and wanted to come with me. The next night I called them with their godfather with me on speaker phone and my 9-year-old son said he had the day off school because he felt so sick because he missed me so much. After that, she turned the phone off and threw it in the cupboard then wrote my solicitor a letter saying she wouldn't vary the VRO because I had upset them so much. And that's just a little bit of the B--- S--- she has done along the way. She even went to Bali for 5 days and left the kids with her parents.2. She got the kids put on the VRO out of spite the whole thing is vexatious and it takes so long to get to court and defend it, bloody just over 6 months and to have the feeling that I wouldn't even know if the kids are alive or dead, just helpless and the whole system suck's.The VRO was all on her say not proof or even hearsay, her lying her say and I lost my kids because of a spiteful mother that got caught loving the wrong family, her father.
    3* They sent the older kids to the psychologist and so I found out because the older two said they were a little frightened at times they can try to keep the kids off me longer. They really did their homework before I wasn't of any use anymore.
    All emotional hurtful things as they can all the way, I got the VRO a week after my 50th and on good Friday which was our 16 anniversary and I was taking the kids to their Nanny's that weekend for an Easter egg hunt.
    Sorry going off again :)


    By: SG66 from WA, Australia on November 26, 2016 @ 10:54 pm


    In that time, (16 years of marriage) we had 4 children ages are 4,9,12,14, with the 9-year-old being the only boy. They are on the Violence Restraining Order as well, she told the magistrate that I was taking the kids away and she was frighten for them. She knew I was taking them for a Easter egg hunt at their Nanny's for the weekend in Toodyay in WA just over a one hour drive away.
    It has been 8 month now that I haven't really seen them and the Violence Restraining Order court date wasn't until the very end of September then she had a barrister for it and tried to make me out to be a fuck'n monster. Then the fuck'n court system could hear it in one day so another 4 weeks later we had day 2 and at the end of that day find out that the magistrate didn't bother to read the original transcript from when the VRO was granted is just fuck'n unreal. So he has reserved his dissension until the 5th of December

    We were also just prior to me being turfed out in the process of purchasing a business.

    I have just settled the financial side of things with only just enough money to cover the requirements for the bank as it will help me look after the kid's futures and she said I could see the kids once it was out the way.

    I was happy to settle, just to get rid of her and now I will have a fighting fund to fight for the kids and it was probably better than going to court. She got 70/30 of the combined superannuation and 60/40 of the cash that was left from the sale of our house in 2014. I was told it wouldn't get much better than that and now I can move forward.

    She wanted me to sign a minute of undertaking that the Violence Restraining Order stays in place and she will take the kids off it. We had already sent one to her with the Violence Restraining Order removed but with the same undertakings as the Violence Restraining Order (not that I want to talk to her anyway).

    Anyway, there is a bit more involved in the past to get into for now but its hard to keep it simple and short.

    Point form might help:

    1. The VRO is complete B--- S--- she has even told the godfather of our kids she only used it to keep control of the kids, money and get me out of the house and I have read the transcript and the whole thing is full of crap. We had a home office at the time and she was asked in court if I had any tools of the trade at the house. With only 30 mins to get out, I could only grab a few thing for work.The god father was chick'n shit and wouldn't go to court to help me.
    By: SG66 from WA, Australia on November 26, 2016 @ 10:46 pm

    THE SYSTEM IS JUST SO ONE SIDED, NO WONDER SO MANY MEN COMMIT THEIR OWN MURDER.


    A bit of background for you.

    Back in March, I was thrown out the house (ON OUR 16TH ANNIVERSARY)with no warning and I have even received letters from the wife saying I could stay till June. I found $30k missing TO HER FATHER from the bank account and also, via internet banking, found out that she had transferred all the funds into a bank account in her name only from our joint account.

    Just prior to that, I also found other amounts to her father and that she had also bought him a car and paid lawyers, mortgage, car loans and other items for him. It all added up to around $1.5m in the end over our 16 years of marriage but most of it since 2010.I was turfed out on Easter Friday 25th March, after being at work all day and even sending her a text asking where she would like to go to dinner for our anniversary>
    Fuck me what a DC I was.
    By: DM from WA, Australia on November 26, 2016 @ 4:03 pm
    So a mistake was made with my tax return that said I earn $14000 more than I actually do. I rectified this with ATO. CSA have just replied to my attempt to have the income reflect my actual and not the mistaken one. Their reply is that they will not change it and will continue to assess me on the higher mistaken income !!???
    How this makes sense is beyond me. Taking money I do not have.
    Merry Xmas CSA
    By: Kris from nsw, ZOG on November 26, 2016 @ 9:46 am
    Hi to all paying parents, csa/family flaw multi billion dollar racket destroying families and creating the new "stolen generation" and domestic violence.
    My ex chooses not to work full time, as she has a great life with her sugar daddy. So i looked into form 8a capacity to earn, and again more smoke n mirrors. This form 8a wants to know everything about me ,pages and pages of shit, like your income,possessions, houses,cars,marital status what colour undies i wear etc, for WHAT?. All i want is for them to look into to her capacity to earn.
    Everyone beware this is in my opinion another trap of csa fks.
    They want to know everything about me so they can at their discretion determine that im just whining,and maybe even to raise your amount, cause you may have inherited your grandfathers knife collection.
    This fking formula is supposed to be based on both parents income,right. So why dont they actively pursue her like they do me.
    Happy white ribbon day fellers.
    And male suicide is just a trivial topic, not worth any ribbons
    Rot in hell all solicitors and lodge politicians.
    By: LAT74 from WA, Australia on November 25, 2016 @ 3:37 pm
    Pauline Hanson and the One Nation Party have policy in place to audit the Child Support System and the Family Court. In line with 2nd Family being penalized by the system and the rorting that goes on with ABN Holders. It is own the One Nation website.....someone somewhere ought to be able to get enough people together and form a collaborative argument that the system is fundamentally flawed! Everything is linked to Mygov so once in the system its almost impossible to get out! I feel for the mums who get nothing, I loathe the fathers that pay nothing and do everything they can to "cheat" I am all for supporting my daughter but not at the cost of my other family! Something needs to be done! It is not a fair system, all the websites encourage an independent agreement with the mother or father but some either want to punish the other or realize they are better off using the CSA, where is the incentive to not use them?! Someone needs to galvanise everyone and take this to the next level...
    By: robin from New South Wales, Australia on November 25, 2016 @ 11:33 am
    laurie
    Im a mum and have to agree with you CSA are doing the same thing to me .My x owns a ABN and 3 business but doesnt work doesnt do his tax nothing BUT owns a house goes on holidays brought a new car for himself and his new wife all with out a job so its MY FAULT cause Im not doing a thing to get money I gave up as well being the caring bitch I am its not far on him to support his kids that he helped make. Get a job CSA told me and leave him alone he has no money WTF do they think I do all week 80hrs weekends 2 jobs and Im not doing enough to support my kids so I went to court still going throu court. CSA told me once a person has a ABN its not their money its the company money and they cant go after a ABN holder
    By: Paul from Qld, Australia on November 24, 2016 @ 9:23 pm
    AJ, Laurie and all others concerned. The key problem is not the individuals within CSA, although they certainly exacerbate the problems. The legislation is what does all of the damage. I don't have the Act in front of me but the essence of all decision making is that regardless what formula is used, the Registrar has the 'discretion' to decide the amount that you pay and also retains the right to delegate this authority to anyone that they deem fit, even the humble cleaner. No disrespect meant.
    Until we form a united alliance and fight the legislation we will never win. Yes CSA are making fundamental life changing decisions with no regard for the rights of our children and yes, we are drawn into protracted battles with them and others. My list is impressive, I've spent more time in court and studied more law than most lawyers in the past three years. If we are truly frustrated enough to take action, suicide is not the option. We need as much support as we can get. We need a member in the upper and lower house as well as state representatives and it needs to start now. I wish that there was a quick answer but everything to date has been bandaid solutions. Start searching out politicians that are sympathetic to the cause and post their details here, have every pissed off 'payee' send letters of support and get some real action happening.
    By: AJ from W.A, Australia on November 24, 2016 @ 8:05 pm
    Laurie Mills,

    It's interesting to hear things from a woman's point of view who is on the sharp end a bit like us guys are. Personally, I believe that there should be a royal commission into CSA, not that any good would come out of it.

    But yes, one of my key gripes is that they work out their formula on gross earnings.....who the hell gets their gross earnings? If I did, I would not have a debt to the CSA.

    Personally, I see this whole thing as the federal government taxing us all twice, and earning more from the interest on that money. Given that, I doubt that it will ever stop.

    But the thing that gets me SO fucking angry, is how people with their own business do not get fully audited. Example; even though my ex is now a teacher, previously, she was a graphic designer with her own business (I think she still has said business, but has hidden it somehow). But anyway, in the years prior to her becoming a teacher, her earning on paper were..........$5,000 per year!

    WTF? People would not get out of bed in the morning for that, but CSA accepted that as a figure? How fucking stupid are these people? I only have about another 2 years of it left, that is my only saving grace.
    By: Laurie Mills (femaile) from Qld, Australia on November 24, 2016 @ 7:36 pm
    Hi everyone
    Sure is a lot of pain expressed in this forum. I'm perhaps one of the few females who has been victimised by the CSA in "reverse".

    My ex husband refused to pay Child Support, for a couple of reasons: his money is his (self centred), addictions are expensive, he needs to be a victim, the CSA made an error in calculations and we have 3 children so 18%x3 off gross earnings just about put him in the poor house.

    I don't believe CS should be off gross earnings - no "normal" family pays the children before the tax man so I agreed to a private arrangement with the ex. I also believe 18% per child is too much - good budgeting and thrifty practices especially when there's more than one child means a sliding scale would be realistic. The ex refused to pay anything in spite of my giving him an "out" from CSA and requested a reasonable amount, but C'link calculated as though he was so docked my pay. I was very poor and couldn't get a job.

    Eventually I was forced by Centrelink to contact CSA. They made an error, charging him far too much which I didn't think was fair on the ex (even though he's a very nasty person) and it was endangering me as the ex joined the CSA in abusing me. I told them it was wrong 3 times but they ignored me.

    Thus began the ex's violence towards them and more at me. He eventually worked for a company and was paid in his aunty's ABN number - went underground.

    He still makes me out to be the traditional "bitch" - won't let him see the children and many more lies, all to justify his not paying a cent. In the end the CSA bullied ME to find him, get money from him and so on. They kept checking my bank accounts, asking about transfers, calling me and being very nasty. They did nothing for me at all except cause a lot of problems.

    It's almost ten years ago now that I insisted I be exempted from collecting CS. It was safer and got rid of the CSA who did nothing but abuse and pressure me and treat me like a criminal. The ex thinks the CSA can sweep his tax cheques to give to his children so he hasn't put in his taxes for a decade. He'd get enough to buy a house as he's on a very high income. We're still on a low income but without the CSA in our lives, it's bliss.

    So please keep in mind fellahs that the CSA abuses and uses everyone. There are people who do the wrong thing for sure but I'm suspicious that a lot of problems between couples are actually created by the CSA themselves but the ex's don't know that so blame their ex.

    I despise the CSA.

    Laurie
    1440. By: Paul Siegman from Victoria, Australia on November 23, 2016 @ 11:18 pm
    Everyone I have spoken to says dhs child support ways are criminal and I agree 110%. I'm going to loose my home I have worked all my life for because of their inhumanity. All men and many woman disagree with the child support ways so why the fuck are we sitting here winging about it when we should be all getting together and fixing this life destroying law? Who is going to argue with 80% of Australia? We can make it right for us all.
    By: Oscar from SA, Australia on November 23, 2016 @ 7:37 pm
    Jimmy

    I have just been through this process, but where I lodged the COA under 8A and 8B. if you want to give me some contact details, I will have a chat with you about the process and what happened at each stage (regarding provision of information and documents etc and the CSA processes).

    Happy to assist if I can.
    By: Rob from Vic, Aust on November 23, 2016 @ 12:06 pm
    Jimmy,

    Nothing stops you getting advice on what you intend to submit before you submit anything, if you can afford it. Don't talk to them, do it all in writing.
    By: Ian King from QLD, Australia on November 22, 2016 @ 8:46 pm

    Hi Jimmy,

    I find it ironic that a C.O.A. can be submitted with both a Reason 8A and Reason 8B at the same time. Reason 8A is "we think you are earning more than you are declaring" and Reason 8B is "we think you are not earning as much as you should be". The irony seems to escape the CSA however.

    With regards your questions :
    [1]
    If you don't communicate with them, they will just escalate the case without your involvement anyhow. Unless you are planning on emigrating, or living 'outside' the system, I don't know if ignoring them serves any purpose. They will not go away.

    However, if you do choose to communicate with them, then I would suggest :
    [a] Do not give them any information over the phone. Insist that all requests for information are sent via mail, and only reply by mail. This way you will have an audit trail.
    [b] Volunteer as little information as possible. Anything that they are legally allowed to request, such as bank statements, they can obtain directly from your bank themselves. This initial part of the process is a "Fishing Expedition". They are trying to gather as much information about you as possible, so they can "cherry pick" pieces that suite their objective. Dont give it to them voluntarily.
    [c] Be aware that information that you volunteer will be given to your ex-spouse. They will most certainly not ask her for the same level of disclosure.
    [d] The reason I suggest volunteering as little information as possible, is that in my particular case, I gave them everything they asked for throughout the process. By the time I had completed the objection, review and AAT process, I had over 600 pages of documentation. This in response to 2 pages of statements from my ex, which initiated the C.O.A. If you have to involve a lawyer later on in the process, the fewer documents you have, the cheaper and better it will be.
    [e] Request a reference number for each conversation with them and keep a log of these. However, do not rely on their call recordings. These are conveniently lost when it suites them.

    [2]
    You are not allowed representation at this point in the process.

    [3]
    You should submit your Tax Return.

    Do you see your children and do you have a parenting plan in place ? The "Care Percentage" variable in the formula can make just as large an impact on you support payments.

    Good Luck
    Ian
    By: Jimmy from QLD, Australia on November 22, 2016 @ 4:50 pm
    Here is my letter from the CSA. Please give me thoughts.
    1. Call them or not
    2. I am not allowed representation, true or false
    3. recent years I was 3.5K a month so I left Australia. Last tax return showed 20K earnings, do you think due to the fact I have not done my last tax return while not working it will be increased to 3.5K a month again.

    Letter

    Dear Jimmy, We are writing to you to advise we have received a Change of Assessment application from C..... We have an address for you, via the Child Support Consulting in South Australia, but we are required to speak to you, not your representative during this process. Note: You cannot be represented by a solicitor or another person during the change of assessment process. While an authorised representative may make simple enquiries on your behalf or explain certain limited information, they cannot act on your behalf during this process. With regards to the Change of Assessment application, C..... has applied under Reason 8A & Reason 8B. A copy of C........ application and all supporting documents have been forwarded to Child Support Consulting address, including a response form and a reply paid envelope. We would like you to participate in this process, so if you respond verbally via telephone, or online, or in writing could you please fill in the response form and send any evidence to support your income. We are yet to receive a 2015/2016 tax return from the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) for yourself, could you please provide income details for this period and also the current 2016/2017 period. This will assist in making a correct decision in relation to your income for this process. Please note the open exchange of information means all parties have the opportunity to respond and comment on the information used by the decision maker. Your personal and confidential information contained on pages 5 and 6 of the Information and Privacy section will not be given to the other party. Documents cannot be exchanged after a change of assessment decision has been made. You can access your Child Support online account through myGov. MyGov is a fast and secure way to access a range of government services online with one username and password. You can create a myGov account at.my.gov.au and link it to your Child Support online account. We look forward to hearing from you, Regards Warren
    By: robin from New South Wales, Australia on November 22, 2016 @ 10:57 am
    Aj and other fathers
    A question a lot of fathers talk about killing themselfs as its the only way out of the CSA circle my question would be what would the mother tell the kids " sorry daddy killed himself as he didnt want to pay csa no more "
    Not really fair on the kids is it to grow up thinking that?
    Im not being rude or anything Im fighting them myself to get whats far for my kids and my partner is fighting them too but he went to court and still going throu court just is he would never even think about killing himself over it his kid means the world to him CSA ex bitch gf or not
    By: Sammy from vic, aust on November 21, 2016 @ 8:18 pm
    Keep with us AJ + anyone else who feels that way. I am in my 50s + been down the dark side many times, close to death i can tell you + glad i made it through, although i am still picking up the pieces many years on. Don't give any of these assholes the pleasure of seeing us MEN give up + give our dignity away no matter what they strip from us. They're all causing harm + committing crimes + many know it. We should be using the Crimes Acts 1914 (cth) + 1958(vic) + commercial liens to put all these scumbags behind bars + seize their assets, like they do to us.

    CSA rules
    1. Don't ever enter into any agreement with agents of CSA (ie. no applications, agreements or phone contact). Don't fall for their nice as pie routine at the start so they can form an agreement, which is their aim. They absolutely don't give a f*ck about you + that's all you have to understand + remember.
    2. Always reject/decline[rebut] their offers or counter offer with big charges if they want to do business with you. Use conditional acceptance.
    3. Learn what commercial agreements + contracts are.
    4. Always seek proof of any debt incl. copy of any contract with all the essential elements, actual accounting + signed invoice/affidavit showing exchange of value.
    5. Learn how to deal with debt commercially with limited liability + as MAN with unlimited liability. Any debt no matter how big can always be discharged by signing the back of the original charging instrument, if they ever took it to court. Just don't argue + keep in honour. Their whole system is contracts.

    All their games are FRAUD + commercial law. Time to take off the rose coloured glasses + research + research. They prey on our ignorance + emotional obfuscation + the fact our animal brains wanna punch their heads in cos of the wrong they perpetuate -- the whole industry of theft..

    GOD/CREATOR
    MAN
    MAN created entity/fiction (ie. CSA)

    Who has the supreme authority,, Man or CSA?
    By: AJ from W.A, Australia on November 21, 2016 @ 6:18 pm
    I feel everybody's pain here, I really do.

    Now I am getting really concerned for myself though, and I don't know what to do....

    I will still have to pay these criminals until about 2018. Hopefully, I will then clear up my "fake debt". But by then, I'm assuming that no bank is going to give me a mortgage of any kind at all. :-( because I turn 50 in January 2017.

    I swear, it makes me want to go out and do something criminal.

    I could try to get a cheaper place to live in the Philippines (so I can be with my youngest daughter) but I've looked, and I'm still looking at about $150,000 for something in her small town.

    I honestly think that the only way I'm going to set a future for my youngest, is to kill myself in a few years, and hope that my insurance and Super can cover things for her.

    Interesting that CSA "cunts" are the biggest cause of male suicide in Australia, but nobody say a fucking word. Also weird that as I'm getting older, I am fearing death less and less. But that's another story......
    By: LAT74 from WA, Australia on November 21, 2016 @ 11:39 am
    Hi all, having recently only found this site (amongst others) I have read the majority of comments and found many with the same fears and anxieties I and my second family have! My story begins some years ago in the UK with my ex de-facto and I having a daughter, I was warned she liked getting pregnant early in the relationship (2 previous to 2 different fathers) and subsequently witnessed first hand how manipulating she was, glad I was on her side right? When it was my turn for the scrap heap she traded me in for her first daughter's (16 years old) 24 year old boyfriend, the 16 year old daughter and I were asked to find new places to live!! MY daughter was 3 years old and found herself without a Father. Access was simple, pay as you go....no payment she doesn't go! I had no parental responsibility, no home, no money (ex had conveniently 3 days before throwing me out emptied the joint accounts) As the days and weeks passed I was forced to pay half the mortgage, all the bills otherwise I didn't see her, if I turned up without money the door was slammed in my face with a screaming child the on the other side wanting to see her Daddy. Needless to say I spent about 10k (pounds) to get access, she still didn't let me see her, solicitors even said no judge will hold a mother in contempt and send her to jail as that is not in the best interests of the child!!!! During this I was arrested for her accusing me of sexually assaulting her 16 year old daughter....more court appearances, more crocodile tears, judge had no option but to deny me access as the assault case was ongoing! 2 years later I finally get supervised visits....the arresting officer rang the court to say "if it wasn't a waste of police resources my ex would be arrested and charged with wasting police time, this man deserves to see his daughter" I was of course cleared of any accusation and following supervised visits did I get to see her....of course not!! I finally decided to leave it all behind, if my daughter wanted to see me I would wait until she is 18, old enough to seek me out and tell the truth, I couldn't deal with the anguish and torture any more! I moved to Australia, have a new wife and 3 year old and my UK daughter is 14, I pay $1400 per month and she has made contact which is a great blessing. I cannot see her as she is to afraid to tell her mother and I cannot afford to fight it, or bring her over, the payments are destroying my 2nd family, I am paying them on a credit card. Despite my daughter being in the UK I am part of the Australian system, payments go up when turned 13, withhold childcare rebate if you don't get your tax return done, value my 3 year old less than my 14 year old!! I went missing on Saturday afternoon with a bottle of booze and a lonely beach presented itself, I was ready to walk in and end it all! If I moved back I would pay less even if I didn't see her, thankfully I didn't do it but the thoughts are there. The CSA last week told me when I asked them to justify "Why" teenage girls need more things like make up and toiletries, why does the UK government not take this into account lady CSA worker....?? She understands she says but unfortunately blah blah....I tell them, my child is too afraid to tell her mother she wants to see me, now knows I pay for her, CSA lady says "a child doesn't need to know you pay for her" I've written to the mother, see where that ends....thank you for reading
    By: Rob Bed from Vic, Australia on November 21, 2016 @ 4:24 am
    Watch out for the end of school dates, especially if you have multiple kids. My ex constantly put in an extra month to CSA, ring the school and find out the exact date school finishes, MAKE AN OBJECTION if the date is wrong.... and what was the punishment for HER lying? nothing... Female privilege by the Govt in this country has to stop.
    1430. By: Kris from nsw, ZOG on November 20, 2016 @ 8:48 pm
    Hi to all paying parents,
    Dont ever talk to those fks at csa, if you do dont ever tell them anything especially your marital status. Do they tell you your exs marital status? Everything is privacy regarding her but not YOU. They are profiling you analyzing you and sooner or later will fk you.
    And regarding not saying anything bad about your ex infront of your kids...
    I don't buy that crap,
    When the time is right ,the truth should not be hidden or diluted.
    And in my case it probably wont matter anyway. With the amount of poison,isolation and lies my ex has fed my son he most likely wont even want to know me soon. But hey who am I but a sponsor.
    Solicitors are disgusting maggots/rats dressed in suits to look more appealing.

    By: Neil Bennett from NSW, Australia on November 20, 2016 @ 10:32 am
    Laurie
    CSA .....CANNOT.... take money from a spouses bank account unless they (CSA) PROVE in a court that that father has transfered that money to you and the court agrees and makes a judgement in their favourite. But be aware that if they are chasing your husband then they are looking into your finances in the background as well. My wife and I have had 20 years of this shit. My wife has a file with them and only found out through FOI. But there a ways around it. Husband owns a company....said company pays rent.to said wife...get creative people. Use the law as they use it against you. Don't fall for their bullying as that is all it is. The worst they can do is stop you leaving Australia...DPO. they CANNOT jail you for not paying child support
    By: Oscar from SA, Australia on November 19, 2016 @ 7:45 pm
    so - my case is almost at an end. Well, my child support is over as of 11 November, but our court action continues.
    I objected to an assessment by the CSA, then objected to the decision made out of that, then appealed the decision of the AAT, and now we are going to the Federal Circuit Court. Submissions are lodged, and the hearing will be in December.

    There is some hope that there may not be a hearing. If the CSA, on reading my submissions, agree that I have a point, then the matter can go back to the AAT without a hearing - this is what I am hopeful of, though not really that worried about a hearing as I believe I have a good case.

    In any event, by early December I should have a pretty good idea of where I am at ... looking up
    By: Laurie Mills (femaile) from Qld, Australia on November 19, 2016 @ 1:09 pm
    Hello. I've read with concern that the CSA has the power to take money from the wife of a father, even though she's a step-mother and not biologically related to her husband/partner's child at all. Is this really true? Can the CSA force me to pay for my husband and his ex-wife's child (so she claims)?
    Thanks
    Laurie
    By: John continues from SA, Australia on November 19, 2016 @ 2:59 am
    In this day and age thats bollocksand when are ppl going to stop saying equality between men and women when there clearly is not. I have had to jump from job ro job for 5 years now and just undertaking an apprentiship this year. And as i dont make much they want my wifes money as she earns tripple what i do. This is astounding that they can even ask this!!! And when i am fully qualified i will be paying almost half my wage to a woman i house shared with 7 years ago that never said said she was pregnant and aparently is no longer living in Australia and if i want to get a test done i have to track her down at my cost as CSA will give me no information about her at all. Under privacy laws. Buy yet will tell her everything about me how much i earn ect. FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD CSA IS AN ILLEGA BODY THAT I WILL REMAIN TO NOT ECKNOLEGE so unless i can get a PI to track her down me and my wife have another 11 years min of paying for a child that is not mine. Nore that i wanted nore that i was her partner nore that we even lived together for what CSA States is the required 12 month defacto period for claims to be made. Thier whole claim agenst me is a lie fraud and i cant wait to get my day in court to see what fabricated evidence they can provide! As one time i called them they changed from they have nothing to my name was on the birth certificate. Now im pretty sure i was not there so how did that happen? As im sure i would have to sign something?? Any ideas pepole?
    By: John from SA, Australia on November 19, 2016 @ 2:58 am
    I have found your comments interesting. Basically i have not agreed with CSA from Day one and continually state that they are illegally stealing money from me with out my authority or any proof of parentage.
    My story is a long one. Lived with a girl for 9 months had sex a few times left as she was crazy. 3 years later i find my tax return was stolen by CSA i call to find out that a claim has been made and that no proof was ever gave. According to the CSA she made a phone call. I have requested all documents to be gave to me they refuse as they have none!! I asked how can this happen without my authority they said they sent me letters and i did not respond. Now heres the thing. She makes a phonecall gives no proof to me being father just her say so then gives her own address at the time as my address. Now this should be the first red flag! she claims i ran off but yet my address is the same as hers?? WTF. So now 6 years on i still refuse to pay and each year they take my tax return. They also have been trying to get my wifes information as they said they have the power to take her money. Now few things 1. I moved out after 9 months she was pregnant after this date. This is the only time i responded to CSA they asked for proof that i was not living with her i showed i was not and gave the docs proving this. That the dates could not match up they replied saying. Basically get f#cked we are CSA a law of our own and even tho you have proof we do not agree and even tho she has gave no proof we are still going to rob you. Finally after 5 yers of me and my wife struggling to get our own home and have our own child we can almost afford to start court process to get tests done. When the paternity proof says i am not the father aparently the CSA have done nothing wrong and the thousands of dollers illegally STOLEN from me they do not have to pay me back!!! WTFFF!!! I will then need to take the crazy bitch to claims court to force her to pay me back. At which my lawyer has informed me she can pay 10cents a week for the next few 100 years. The whole system is fraudulent and needs to be reassesed and changed ASAP. Ppl rattle on about equality. How about if 2 ppl are together or even just a one night stand one wants a child the other does not why is it the womans right to make that choice if the guy does not want a child then their should be a document that states the father has no wrights to the child but also does not have to pay. As the woman takes full responsibility. It should be both parents decision to have a kid. As if a woman does not want a child she can just get an abortion. Again with the man having no rights or say to stop her.
    By: james from vic, ozz on November 16, 2016 @ 7:57 pm
    i would say trust comes from honour and over time DJ.. have agents at CSA acted honourably and respectfully toward you and any mutual agreement you have in place? I think many would say CSA as with other corporations can be extremely deceptive and unconscionable... taking money out of a mans bank account whebever they like without caring what the man has to live on maybe just one example!! trust yourself i say and not private agencies whose job is debt collecting sucking men dry by hook or crook.. just my opinion of course
    By: DJ from WA, Aust on November 16, 2016 @ 6:28 pm
    Just received a call from CSA replying to my comments about them being unjust and corrupt. Very nice lady told me that they would do everything they could to reduce my debt...... I've heard all this before...... Do I trust them this time?
    By: Jen from Qld, Australia on November 15, 2016 @ 8:50 am
    Feeling frustrated.... So ex warned 20k previous financial year suddenly earns this yr 73k no adjustments to sudden 50k difference. We only have 4mths left till 18 just keep going forward all this BS is almost over finally. Any one want any money CSA just love to give it away?
    By: DM from WA, Australia on November 11, 2016 @ 9:06 pm
    So sad to read all the stories here. Dads are really alienated from everything when marriages end. In my case the wife cheated and won everything and the kids still feel the need to keep mum happy. She still controls me and everything the kids do. Paying $400 a week for the next 5 1/2 years. I have supported that lady for 17 years in marriage, 5 years since marriage and anothe 5 1/2 in front of me.
    It is a fact that dads will be treated with utter disregard and disrespect when divorced. Try calling anywhere as a dad worried about the welfare of your children. Get used to being treated like you have just commited the worst crime, that you are not an equal parent, that you do not matter. Oh but stay poor and keep handing over the money.
    2 choices.....sit in the corner, grab your knees and rock back and forth.
    or
    See the situation for what it is. Ride it out. Enjoy the time we have with our kids. Celebrate like hell when the ex no longer has any control over you. Do all you can to ensure your kids reach adulthood being the least affected possible . Show your kids love.....never bag your ex in front of them or in earshot.......take care of yourselves, your health and mental health, build freindships and move on.
    Good luck to all
    1420. By: AJ from W.A, Australia on November 11, 2016 @ 4:00 pm
    Hi community,

    I would like to get some opinions if possible please; I have just got off of the phone with CSA.

    As I explained to them, part of the reason I am in arrears, is that my child access has been minimal. But this has been through the following actions by my ex wife.

    1. She cut off the mobiles that I had purchased my daughters.

    2. She moved home in Perth without telling me, or leaving a forwarding address. By chance, her neighbour told me.

    3. She has to move to Mt Tom Price and work there for three years, because she pissed off so many people in the Education Department in Perth. Obviously, I could not afford $800 per fortnight to fly up there and see my kids.

    4. She returned to Perth about a year ago, I only found this out because of her Facebook profile.

    How do you think the Family Court would see this?

    Thanks,

    AJ.
    By: Bb from Wa, Australia on November 11, 2016 @ 2:04 pm
    High all my story is the same as most of you I'm getting screwed by csa
    I have always paid my Cs and about 2 years ago my daughter told me she never wants to see me again. So as fathers do I seek mediation , ex refuses to go 2 years later I'm here right now at family law courts waiting the outcome of a child inclusive mediation session.
    So 2 years ago my ex gets the shits because I fight to get access to daughter, she submits a change of assessment which invokes a investigation in to my financials and the csa in their wisdom put my Cs up 4 fold
    Even withstanding I have 4 other children to my wife now 3, 5 and 8
    I am booked to go overseas in 2 weeks with my family, but the csa has informed me the have placed a departure ban on my passport, I now have to explain to my family I can't go on holidays with them.
    My objection to the change of assessment was lodged over two months ago via a lawyer and csa claim they don't have it and I now need to apply for a time extension for them to proceed.
    I think I'm about to loose my family because of this my wife is more stressed than I am
    The truth is out there but csa don't like facts they are bullies
    By: robin from New South Wales, Australia on November 11, 2016 @ 12:47 pm
    oscar
    My partner spend 10 yrs trying to find his son
    3 yrs ago he found him and went straight to family court to get access his ex didnt show for 6 court cases so the judge put out a breach she turned up to the last 1. Judge told her to her face women like you make my job hard now have 1 more court case to set throu next yr to see if he can see his kid. Court does work so try that. Judge had csa drop his payments down from 805 a month ( my partner payed every month since kid was born )kids now 15 to just under 200 a month to show he has other kids to support as it doent take 805 a month to raise a child a court order is the only way csa will drop payments as they wont believe a thing you say. is going to court worth it in the end yes it is their your kids fight anyway you have to just so you can see them goes for everyone out there
    By: Erin from NSW, Australia on November 11, 2016 @ 8:54 am
    Hi Shell - I have been writing to MPs for at least 10 years now. They really don't care. I've written to Ministers as well. I get the same crappy form letter back about how my husband has an obligation to his children, blah blah blah. I have highlighted how unfair the system is to second families. It really is. If it were in the best interests of the children, our subsequent children would be treated equally and fairly. But as far as the CSA/politicians are concerned, as long as the first wife and her kids get their money, they don't give a shit if there's nothing left for the other family to live on. I've been saying for years that second families are second class citizens in their own country.
    By: Rob Bed from Vic, Aust on November 11, 2016 @ 4:26 am
    I'm on my way out of CS. To the younger guys out there don't put up with the BS, fight them. Its actually questionable if CS is constitutionally valid. It states "child endowment" and does not specify that fathers must pay it. I know most of you guys want to help out but that doesn't mean the state has control over you and does not mean you have to concede to the demands. Weigh it up, if you believe you are being ripped then have your say. Hang in there.
    By: Rob Bed from Vic, Aust on November 11, 2016 @ 4:04 am
    am i blocked? i posted twice and it didn't appear
    By: Oscar from SA, australia on November 11, 2016 @ 2:03 am
    Just a quick comment - I see many of you talking about "I pay $10,000 a year" I cant afford to take her to court.

    I have paid almost $30,000 per year for the last 4 years .. yes, that is per year. making a change of assessment application costs nothing, objecting to it costs nothing, going to the administrative appeals tribunal costs nothing, and so far, going to the Federal Circuit Court has cost me nothing ....

    If you think you have a case - TAKE HER ON ....
    By: jaye from Qld, Australia on November 11, 2016 @ 12:02 am
    Hi all I have been paying child support for 11 years for 3 children that my ex ran away with, she made it very hard for me to get access to see them I got very depressed, I got married and made another family and my wife has limited income, so basically I have been paying for 2 family's, I have always tried to pay my fair share but the fair share is way to much, I tried to better my self and get qualified and work longer hours and child support just comes in and takes more , I just done 2 years of tax returns and my ex will get them 11k, I have been paying 44k out of my net the last 4 years, the system is rorted I pay 40 percent tax then I pay 30 percent to her, I nearly had a break down but I am going to hold my head high for my family, she the ex constantly try's to get every last cent she can even threaten me that I will be paying until they are 25, she has mental issues, I can't afford t fight her in court when my incomes high, so I have decided to go on the dole and pay 34$ a month and get some legal aid to get some visitation rights, I want to be given the chance to show my kids the love I feel and the chance to right the wrongs of my past, I can see why the system fails men in this country and why suicide is very high, we need to all get together and fight for a change to make it fair for us and the kids.
    By: Oscar from SA, Australia on November 10, 2016 @ 9:17 pm
    thanks AJ

    I was just surprised that there was no-one on here going through the court processes that was willing to discuss .. I know that once I have been through mine (in December) I'd be more than willing to give any guidance to things I learnt / observed ..
    By: AJ from NSW, Aust on November 10, 2016 @ 9:04 pm
    HI Oscar
    Try the Mens Peer Support Forum at www.mensline.org.au - they give really practical advice and try to guide you based on their own crapy experiecnes with CSA and Family Law experiences.
    Good luck.
    1410. By: Oscar from SA, Australia on November 10, 2016 @ 7:29 pm
    I come on here looking for advice, and I must say I am disappointed at the lack of it. there is a lot of bitter talk, and I get that because I have been through it - but thankfully for me it ends soon.

    But, I have asked so many times for thoughts / guidance from those going through the change of assessment processes (through the AAT and FCC) - so my only guess is that no-one is going through that process.

    If no-one is going through that process, then nothing will change in your circumstances - you have to take a step to start the journey. It has been hard, I lodged mine in Jan 2015, objected twice, went through the AAT, and appealed that to the Federal Circuit Court. in December I will have a hearing ....

    if you want change, you have to start "something" else no-one will know it is broken ....
    By: AJ from W.A, Australia on November 10, 2016 @ 2:28 pm
    DJ,

    I feel your pain, really. Their system is very unfair, that has left me in debt, case in point for me:

    My ex works as a teacher, she was thrown out of 2 schools in Perth for interfering in other teacher classes. Dept of education gave her a choice; go to a country school, or lose your job.

    So, she went up to Tom Price for 4 years, and took my kids with her. Because she was far away, CSA attitude was I could not be bothered to see my kids. How about the $800 air fare costs? And that is why my debt has been back dated.

    This is a really fucked up process. They should look at the people as well.

    Ex is a true psycho.
    By: DJ from WA, Australia on November 10, 2016 @ 12:57 pm
    the debt csa say I have is unfair.
    1. It was accumulated over a period while I was unemployed and for a lot of that time with no income at all.
    2. The debt is not to my children or my ex, it is to an unfair corrupt department in the CSA that takes money off vulnerable fathers that have been stripped of their families who are depressed and then with the further burden of being put into debt by unfair late fees are on the brink of suicide.
    I gave my ex all of our assets at the time of our split so my children wouldn't suffer and so they had a roof over their heads, but for some reason that doesn't count for anything. I give my children all I can afford and now pay for half the school fees and other bills direct.
    By taking money from my pay this stops me from being able to live a happy life enjoying being with my children.
    I am being slugged $$$$ out of my pay this week. That's the money I would have used to feed my kids next week when they are with me. That's less money I can spend on my children's Christmas presents. That part of the money I could be spending on school fees and I have to live as well, pay rent, run a car, eat, stay healthy and I do this all for my children and they still take money from me.
    The system is unfair
    CSA is unfair.
    I contribute to my children and I'm there for them, so why does CSA make it harder for me to do this than it already is.
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