Have Your Say Discussion Forum



A vitally important place to air your emotions, how you feel and what you think!

The F4J Have Your Say area is simply a place for everyone where you get the Freedom, Peace, Love and Respect to share what's going on for you.

There is no right or wrong about what you say or how you say it —
the main thing is you let it out!

So have your say, vent your spleen, say your peace, let your feelings, emotions and thoughts run free as opposed to bottling it up causing ill health in you and for others.

Chances are there is somebody relating to exactly what's happening or of concern to you. What you say may very well help others as well as yourself. Once we all realise we are not alone and we are all in this together in one form or another, as living men and women with fundamentally the same psychological and biological structure, a great sense of relief and peace can come from this knowing.

However, the only condition in this forum is we ask you not to identify family members by their true names. Not because of man made rules, fear or ignorance, but purely based on respect for yourself, your family and reasons of higher good, else you're free to let loose.

This Have Your Say section is an open forum and not censored as such giving you the freedom to let rip with whatever's on your mind.

So with all that out of the way.... Go straight to writing a comment now

    <Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next>215 - 166 Comments... +Add Yours ...Over 252,248 views
    WARNING - By:shane from QLD, australia on May 10, 2014 @ 8:39 am
    Do men even read this shit,no one gives a shit,WHY,who knows but that's the way it is.No one gives a shit about u so stop comin on here seeking counselling or sympathy cos no one gives a shit,isn't that right f4j
    step familys - By:Leon Wilz from Glenelg SA, Australia on April 21, 2014 @ 9:17 am
    Have been divorced & all that stuff. After that in r'shp with mother of 3 older kids for bout 5 and bit yrs. I ended it suddenly as no consideration to me, was all about her,kids & work. Swore not to get in another r'ship with woman & older kids, yet I did for now over 1yr. Damn!! Have no real connection to kids & just wondering whether I am right for this r'ship or have made mistake. Should I get a woman without kids who just wants me for who I am. Any advice out there would be great.
    No support 4 men - By:alan from vic, australa on April 14, 2014 @ 10:46 pm
    bike ride sounds good col yet dont hav a bike. went into the office the other day (centrelink) for a routine visit of good for nothing help and was given a coupl photocopys with services. I thought here we go, maybe somethin useful. Out of 13 categoris there were no services for men unless you regard CSA as a service listed under emergency telephone numbers useful.
    Organising - Start with a weekly group r - By:Col from wa, australia on April 12, 2014 @ 6:49 am
    Interesting reading regarding the lack of blokes ability to organise themselves.

    I'll throw it out there what about building up support through a weekly F4J bike ride in each state.

    WA it would be the foreshore on the Swan River to do a bridges ride 10K. Ideally meet on the foreshore in front of the family court or on the hill at parliament house wearing a bit of F4J paraphernalia on a Sunday morning

    Hopefully building up numbers over the months.

    I'm sure other capital cities would have ideal rides also.

    Men like to keep fit and ride bikes

    What say
    Where are wo/men going?? - By:Bewitched from Vic, Australia on April 11, 2014 @ 10:41 am
    Nice BJ. As young men get smarter and more reluctant to get embroiled in relationships and families, due to anti male FC/CSA agendas, what of the poor women who get left on the shelf because of such abhorrent govt/corp policies? What will women now do, those who wanted the chance to be loyal wives, get a home and be good mums? Will they be looking toward a Sperm Bank? Of course, it all makes sense. Those filthy banksters wanted families to break apart just so they could come in with their crumby Sperm Bank operation for the women. So fatherless homes will presumably become a norm. So fathers in families will become non-existent for awhile I think until women wake-up too and see that men with all their good points, as well as faults, are still a better proposition for a family of well rounded children.
    210. What are Men? - By:BigJoe from Victoria, Australia on April 11, 2014 @ 1:09 am
    Great words and enthusiasm Shane to get the troops moving, you sound like an honourable man. You can fight with me anytime.

    However, although I might be an old fart and worn out, what I have gleaned over many years about the behaviour of Australian men in general, may explain the lack of enthusiasm to get up off their arse and fight. There being a few male exceptions of course, including those on this site.

    a) Man is designed to only work for a short time and when he has to. Man can normally not endure hard times for any length of time.

    b) Man is essentially hedonistic and non-sacrificial and yes and what's in it for him. Yes man often thinks with his dick as we all know. To work tirelessly without receiving some form of gratitude or satisfaction is not a man's quiescent state.

    c) Man is unable to network with other men for the good of other men nor children. Their focus is narrow and concentrated.

    d) Man will only get out of their comfort zone either when they choose to or are absolutely forced to survive.

    e) Man has difficulty being open with his emotions and power unless under special circumstances, like at a sporting match where it's socially acceptable to shed a tear when his team loses or wins.

    f) Some men can use their emotion to fight for their property and family, as it is an attack on his person and survival. But again, this is only for a short period of time as they don't have the mental or emotional stamina, usually not aware of their god given rights and power.

    g) Man is often a fix it person and quick decision maker, hence if he can't remedy a situation he moves on. i.e. If something is too hard, like battling the system, he will work out a way to get round or over the obstacle.

    h) Man often works on acceptable losses, they won't flog a dead horse.

    i) Man won't go to jail for a principle.

    j) Man has been feminised and sold his soul for the dollar, toys and fun.

    k) Man is generally a loner and quiet type who don't need others to survive.

    l) Man's ego is often far bigger than his belly. He is often loathed to become a fool and depart from political correctness. Society has robbed him of his true manly values and left him that of coward.

    m) Man's need for control is strong, but not always strong enough when challenged.

    n) When men feel like a failure, their morale is low and don't advance, depression and suicide can often be imminent.

    o) Men often prefer peace to confrontation.

    p) Men are more protectors, providers and defenders more than aggressors.

    q) Man without true purpose is both lost and sunk.

    r) Men have lost themselves and fail to remember who they really are.

    Whilst your viewpoint may differ, these are but a few from my standpoint.
    If men could only realise and resume their true brotherhood the world might be a far better place for all.

    So in conclusion, man will mostly only fight a battle when he is personally affected. His fight will then usually be by himself as man alone due to his proud nature, limited knowledge and resources. He may join the collective battle some time later after he awakens to an underworld that is never revealed in the mainstream, but then how long he wishes to endure such resistance, hardship and sacrifice against such great forces, can only be attributed to what type of value the individual man wishes to place upon his life and that upon his brothers and sisters.
    100,000 men - By:shane from QLD, australia on April 10, 2014 @ 2:08 am
    PETITION-We the people demand a Royal Commission into corruption in the Family Court of Australia,Royal Commission into Child Safety,investigation into why the Geneva Convention and UN CHARTER for the protection of children is not being implemented or followed by the Family Courts,sexual discrimination against men,why purjory is not a gaolable offence if proven,ROYAL COMMISSION into legal child abuse in Family Courts,where are u australia
    100,000 men - By:shane from QLD, australia on April 10, 2014 @ 12:13 am
    My name is shane wells,I am 42 years old and the family court has now put me into the gutter,I'll be living on the street from the 22/4 so ID may as well do something useful,I'm very very serious,enough talk,who will back me,I'm so serious here's my phone number,0497169295,come on australia I'm committed
    100,000 men - By:shane from QLD, australia on April 9, 2014 @ 11:58 pm
    If fathers are serious about our childrens plight and I can get backing from dads from around oz then I will go on TV and I will walk from townsville to canberra getting petitions signed all the way to deliver to the child abusers in canberra,are fathers willing to back me and put it out there,I would leave on 22/4/14 outside townsville family court,so who's with me,let's put on a show,I'll do the work
    WARNING - By:shane from QLD, australia on April 9, 2014 @ 11:25 pm
    In 2006 the law was changed to be fairer to fathers,scoff scoff,during my trial the judge said 50/50 doesn't work so its no wonder no father gets it unless negotiated between both parties,the statistics show less than 10 percent are granted shared care and less than 3 percent of child abuse casrs are taken seriously even with proof,the prote tion of our kids is not the courts priority,giving them back to mum is regardless of risk of harm and in the process they will lay false,demeaning and corrupt allegations against you and put it in black; and white so your reputations fucked
    100,000 men - By:Chris from NSW, Australia on April 9, 2014 @ 10:32 pm
    Great forum guys. Thought I would pop up and share my bit on my day off, well sicky actually. Cough..cough...cough
    Numbers are the secret no doubt about it Shane. I'm with you. Why should good fathers keep getting th cue stuck up their ass? But maybe we are a minority. How many men are suffering, does F4J have a poll with numbers? Loss of assets, bugger all contact and excess child support, second class citizen, Im sick of it, it's all gotta end. Maybe dis is why im sick. Have wondered how this could be done and wht our plan would be. Question is how many fathers/men would follow when most are too slothful, ignorant, afraid and in their comfort zones. We would need issues that are righteous and good for every man/father/woman and family, else it won't stick. time for a beer
    blatant corruption - By:shane from QLD, australia on April 9, 2014 @ 2:29 pm
    Its about time all fathers stood together in the one place,namely parliament house and built a tent city and show the mongrels that people power and our right to be fathers is our right and we won't take their corruption anymore,our kids are our kids,not a notch on a corrupt judge,frw or lawyer,100,000 strong camped outside parliament house til a royal commission is considered is the least we could do for our kids.Any feedback
    Royal Visit - By:Daveyone from Hertfordshire, United Kingdom on April 9, 2014 @ 2:16 pm
    Write to The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge
    Clarence House
    London
    SW1A 1BA

    "OR BETTER STILL WHY NOT LOBBY THEM DIRECTLY WHILST THEY ARE IN THE AREA< HAS TO BE BETTER THEN INSPECTING A MAORI WARRIOR'S ARSE!"
    is sometin wrong wit me - By:shane from QLD, australia on April 9, 2014 @ 8:44 am
    Nothing wrong with you mate,I'm 42,caught nanna and wife molesting my 3 year old son,F.R.W and court now says I'm a liar even after magellan enquiry proved an extensive history of child abuse in 2 countries,I'm now ruined,I'M movin onto the street in 2 weeks,can only see my children 2 hours a fortnite and my kids lives are now all but ruined,I'M represented myself and can't appeal because of financials even though i'd have an extremely good case,I feel for u
    is sometin wrong wit me? - By:alan from vict, austral on April 8, 2014 @ 4:34 am
    im a father been thru the ringer. years have passed since decade of FCt + defending myself + kids. still struggle... no job..govt agencies all failed me,,ddepression..no assets...no car..ho $$.. all family abandoned me save son + gf atm.. despite trying to get help from people + system no one wants to know or care..some days are ok if i hav somethin 2 do keepin me distracted altho in reality ea day is a struggle without real support from anyone.. my mind sees too much yet is limited to confinement of imagination + push fwd from FCt assault...i dont drink, take drugs...but understand why pple do to kill pain of wrongs that get committed upon many of us=-- my will seems to fade finding reasons to keep alive as there seems to be little point these days.. can anyone tell me what 4?
    200. FC Stay & Appeal - By:JamesR from Vic, Australia on April 4, 2014 @ 4:11 am
    BigJoe is naturally coming from a position of process, common sense, no bias and fair play. Whooops...hang ona minute arent we talkin about the notorious anti-male family crt here?
    blatant corruption by FRW - By:BigJoe from Victoria, Australia on April 4, 2014 @ 12:39 am
    Shane, you would need to make application for a stay of a particular order/s which will again be listed before the trial judge. Your affidavit will need to include evidence not available at the hearing that's recently come to light that demonstrates how the Orders made would cause more or irreparable harm to your child/ren, than good. Of course the matter would need to be listed prior 22/4 because once handover is made, presumably you will have then lost primary residence. The stay, if one was to be ever granted, would have to be sought until after the judgment is handed down from the Full Court of the Family Court. So you don't get your hopes up, it's highly unlikely without very good cause, the judge will order a stay of his/her orders if seen as a stalling tactic or your having issues with the loss. Mind you, if you believe you have to do it and have merit, go for it. Not sure what you know about the appeal process but it's another tough, complex and costly journey. Hopefully you're a strawman so they can't milk you for costs. You have 28 days from judgment date to file your NOA to kick of the appeal.
    blatant corruption by FRW - By:shane from QLD, australia on April 3, 2014 @ 10:30 am
    Today was ordered to hand my son over on 22/4,can anyone tell me if I go to full court of appeal before that date can I stop the order to hand him over until appeal is heard or no,any help appreciated
    blatant corruption - By:shane from QLD, australia on April 3, 2014 @ 5:16 am
    Judgement today,well is all the ex had to do was lie and make false allegations and she won without any proof.she is a white supremacist kiwi who applied for a barrister because of my heritage,she had an aboriginal law firm funded by taxpayers,they proved nothing and won,her stepfather admitted in the nwitnessbox that black people come from monkeys and white people come from god,I caught abuse going on,her mother lost her kids in NZ for child abuse and alleged sexual mollestation of her own son,comes to oz and loses her kids in qld and the NT,I caught grandma breastfeeding my son and much more with the approval of the ex,my babies are now doomed with the protection of the family court,when will this corruption e nd they chose child abusers with mental history to bring up my kids with nothing on me
    power to us - By:Phil from Tassie, Australlia on March 28, 2014 @ 10:10 am
    power to da peoples!!!!
    blatant corruption by FRW - By:shane from QLD, australia on March 26, 2014 @ 8:33 am
    I represented myself,8 days trial later against 2 barristers I still have custody of my son who was abused but she still has my daughter,white supremacy was admitted by her family,she gave my son to her mother to abuse and IF walked in on it occurring,she all but admitted ro this,she is a nazi who hates black people but has an aboriginal organisation representing her because of my kids ancwstry and she is a white supremacist kiwi who is not a citizen,this is how aboriginal taxpayer funded organisations are willing to go to defeat me,go figuree,I'm an aussie with indigenous heritage and they chose to represent white supremacists over a caringfather who caught abuse going on
    blatant corruption - By:JamesR from Vic, Australia on March 26, 2014 @ 6:24 am
    Hi Shane, doubt the Fam report will make the slightest bit of difference to the final outcome, either way it is written. How much did you and your ex pay to have these reports done?

    For the uninitiated the FamCrt game is a simple one. The first hearing (interim) gives primary residence generally to the parent who has possession of the kids usually backed by a status quo of stability for some months. Fathers can often become primary carer of the kids at this point if mums have run off, left the abode or in a bad state on drugs etc. From a lawyers perspective and the business of fleecing mum and dad, lawyers will prefer that Dad's win at interim residence as this way it keeps both parents in the fight at least up until the final hearing where Dad thinks he has a good chance of so called victory.

    The final hearing however, if mums put their hand up for residence they pretty well get it. Only the exceptional case of big dollars, a qc, and very good evidence against the mum may win it for Dad.

    Psych reports, witnesses and evidence/affidavits are all part of the illusion to keep two or more parties embroiled in a conflict that ultimately liquidates their cash and family assets.
    blatant corruption by FRW - By:shane from QLD, australia on March 26, 2014 @ 1:32 am
    I've had my final hearing,family report writer said in the witness box that my children would be better off living with child abusers than being with me,she says this because I'm overprotective because of exfamily history who are proven abusers in 2 countries.Anyone got an idea how the judge will see her blatant bias,incompetance and narcicism
    Freedom - By:John Wilson from NSW, Australia on March 18, 2014 @ 2:02 am
    Dear Fellow Freedom Fighters,

    "We don't need a warrant - we're the Police!" ..... Australian Police trespass, assault and imprison Australians with impunity.

    "We don't need a contract - we're the Banks!" ..... Australian Banks steal from and dispossess Australians with impunity.

    "We don't need a commission - we're the Judges!" .... Australian Judges deny Australians their Rights with impunity.

    What of the Rule of Law?

    "All law hangs on loving God and loving one's neighbour as oneself."

    God once delivered the People of Israel from the slavery of the Pharaohs.

    When will God come again to "deliver us from evil"?
    onya bruce - By:graeme cox from nsw, australia on March 11, 2014 @ 9:49 pm
    brilliant answer bruce, thks mate smart advice...will do what u suggst & see how it rolls..cheers go f4j
    190. ans - By:Bruce from SA, oz on March 11, 2014 @ 12:59 pm
    What I do now when no answer from the other sides lawyer is to word email to them in such a way that if you get no answer you get what you want. "if I receive no answer by date XXX I will take it you agree with what I put have forward.
    No reason you have to be represented by lawyers unless some specific direction by the courts as far as I know.
    lawyer wont respond - By:graeme cox from nsw, australia on March 11, 2014 @ 5:52 am
    how useless are lawyers??? been emailin my exs lawyer for months now but getting no responses back. Cos ex an i dont speak not sure if ex is even getting my emails. looked into Legal Serv Com but there useless to for a pissy little matter like this. what to do? When ex lawyer first sent me letter she said i had to get a lawyer. is this wot they do, just keep it in thre bullshit legal club only? please advise
    Sign Petition - By:Michael K from Vic, Australia on February 27, 2014 @ 3:48 am
    LET ME HAVE CONTACT VISITS WITH MY DAD.

    TO: JAN SHUARD - COMMISSIONER CORRECTIONS VICTORIA, EDWARD O'DONOHUE - MINISTER FOR CORRECTIONS (VICTORIA), ROBERT CLARK - STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL (VICTORIA)

    For more info & link to sign petition: http://www.f4joz.com/news/newspage.php?yr=14&id=70
    Average Income - By:Charles Bedford from New South Wales, Australia on February 18, 2014 @ 12:49 am
    According the latest Australian Bureau of Statistics data, an average full-time worker on normal hours earns $74,000 a year. I receive just over $15k on Newstart at age 45 and up there with the high-rollers I know. I guess I shouldn't complain, 2 minute noodles aren't that bad really. It's just that i'd like to grab a steak once in awhile, say, once every 3 months.
    kisses - By:ilovekisses from Victoria, Australia on February 5, 2014 @ 9:13 am
    i want all the kisses in the world, the kisses make the world go around
    Here we go again - By:Bill Evans from New South Wales, Australia on January 22, 2014 @ 9:40 pm
    Abbott selling of the people's farm with Australia Post to make a temporary windfall will only benefit and be absorbed by a few, where the rest of us pay in the long run for Auspost services, if we are lucky to get them at all of course. Namely having weekday runs chopped down to just three days per week, and that's just for starters. Looking at the demise of Telstra services after being sold off is clear evidence of what happens to liquidated public assets.

    It never ceases to amaze the dumbness, self-centeredness, self serving and shortsightedness of the ruling class when it comes to looking after the people, on whose behalf they 'supposedly' were elected to fairly and wisely represent.

    Of course the simple and complete answer to all public assets and resources of the nation is to have them owned and administered by the people for the people, avoiding bankrupting this great nation we call Australia and home, to foreign interests who don't care for anything but making a profit without regard to the negative footprint they leave behind.

    The only path we should be considering is the wonderful concept of Social Investments where these are setup giving people a direct interest in public services, not shares through an antiquated stock exchange, but many opportunities, employment with great rewards and incentives for all allowing communities and local economies to flourish.

    It's really not that hard with the right mindset and attitude and once you get rid of those captains of the ship that continually run aground. This will in turn put big happy smiles on all our faces as we advance towards a brighter future, not some carcinogenic cesspit of fear and being controlled as expendable and mindless robots.

    However, the paradigm shift needed for the well-being of the community short and long term will never come as long as our so called leaders and representatives are controlled by interests externally to the best interests of Australia and its people.

    The political system has been infiltrated for many years and it's time the people canvassed new ways and forms of leadership in Australia. The political structure and landscape is old and requires an alternative structure, if the current system cannot be suitably transformed.

    The trouble has been when you have puppets at the helm who answer to foreign masters, rather than be true leaders and representatives of the nation's people, of course you will always see this continual sell out until one day, there will be no lucky country and our kids will inherit a gigantic physical, psychological and economic wasteland.

    This is not what we want to leave our kids, is it?

    So remember, we are the problem as individuals, and both individually and collectively have allowed this to happen. Yes, we have taken our eye of the ball, been deliberately distracted by all the control mechanisms, environmental stimulants and addictions known to man, but it's now time to wake, think clearly, act and be brave!

    It's up to YOU and each and every one of us to ensure good things happen in this country and around the world. For when we each truly care for others, there will simply be nothing ever to worry about. Good luck to us all.
    Is it right - By:Moses from QLD, Australia on January 21, 2014 @ 7:56 am
    Hi David. From the below par. it certainly appears that way, cementing common sense and what most of us common folk already know. ie. social services(SS) and the state, keep the hell away from our kids.

    "It is a serious matter for the state compulsorily to remove a child from his family of birth. The section 31(2) threshold is an important measure to protect a family from unwarranted intrusion while at the same time protecting children from harm [1] [75]. The wording of Section 31(2) has been the subject of six appeals to the House of Lords and Supreme Court. Those cases have consistently held that a prediction of future harm has to be founded on proven facts: suspicions or possibilities are not enough. Such facts have to be proved on the simple balance of probabilities [36]. This approach is supported by the legislative history of section 31(2) [45-46] [96]. It would be odd if the first limb (actual harm) had to be proved to the court's satisfaction but the basis of predicting future harm did not [47]."

    As for "future harm as a justified reason to take peoples children away", in the main as I understand it, this appeal kills that notion. However keep in mind, we don't want to limit SS from acting when they should and getting kids killed, as has been the case before, but rather we want to stop SS from blatantly removing kids and deliberately fracturing families, not under the guise of safety, but other agendas with destructive intent.

    As to "can those parents use that judgment to appeal & get their children back", well this is a good question and one that needs to be pushed repeatedly, through the high court if need be, to allow and promote reunification plus installing a barrier to keep the state out of the lives of all normal loving and caring families once and for all.

    The issue of compensation for affected families I believe also needs to be considered.

    ie. TUT TUT State, hands of our kids!!
    Lights are on, but... - By:MrNatural from Victoria, Australia on January 21, 2014 @ 4:05 am
    Hey Pete B, everyone still in holiday mode I think. What's your Q?
    Is it right? - By:David Mortimer from Milton Keynes, UK on January 21, 2014 @ 2:21 am
    Please will you kindly tell me if the Supreme Court said suspicions or possibilities are not enough when considering the significant harm threshold, if you think that judgment could be reasonably used to question if it's right for local authorities social services departments to use future harm as a justified reason to take peoples children away or not & if not can those parents use that judgment to appeal & get their children back?

    http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed111922
    Lights are on, but... - By:Peter Butler from NSW, Australia on January 21, 2014 @ 2:16 am
    If F4J can't offer any constructive ideas, then I can no longer support F4J.
    180. Australia is what we make it. - By:Peter Butler from NSW, Australia on January 7, 2014 @ 10:34 pm
    Not happy supporting de facto 'dad'?
    If a referendum is not the answer, then please tell us what we should be asking for.
    Gay Marraige. - By:Peter Butler from NSW, Australia on December 15, 2013 @ 11:11 pm
    If we do nothing the bureaucrats will keep on telling us how to live our lives. If Australians want to have a say in what marriage is then we need to push for a referendum now. We may never get a second chance to define family if this opportunity is missed.
    Any truth in a judgement? - By:Peter Butler from NSW, Australia on December 14, 2013 @ 1:26 am
    If Oz constitutional gurus have their way a 'yes' vote to a gay marriage referendum would outlaw gay marriage. Most people would assume voting 'no' would mean 'no'. It is not the first time the legal community has argued 'no' means 'yes'. In the past parliament has had the power to argue 'yes' means 'yes', and 'no means 'no', so there is precedent.
    Trial - By:MrNatural from Vic, Australia on December 1, 2013 @ 9:05 am
    Many yrs ago represented meself as I understood the legal racket and didn't pay 25k+ for lawyers in a trial. I had the kids livn with me mostly but went to ex after trial due to witnesses called by exes lawyers. I had 4 reports by court appointed psychol which all admitted kids wanted to stay with dad. See mum but keep livin wit dad. But bitch crt psych changed 180deg in witness box sayin kids best live with mum. Theres no ryhme or reason to it all and nothin bad proven against me but thats the bullshit family court system for u. When I told kids sad news they had to live mostly with their mum my daughter howled her eyes out at 14. My son was 11 and just numb I think. Was one of many horrible moments in tryin to protect my kids. Many good parents are removed from their kids lives and guess this why many say that fam court should be dismantled. But within 1 yr daughter was back with me and so was son <2yrs. Life gets very confusng an mixed up at times.
    Family Court Trial - By:Rambo from NSW, Australia on December 1, 2013 @ 3:35 am
    After reading your previous posts and not sure of your daughter's age, what current orders exist, orders sought, material before the court, witnesses to be called, full extent of history and future arrangements etc, the extent of the other parties bitterness and will to fight, not knowing you, how you present, your maturity and state of mind, emotional stability, beliefs, stresses, awareness, legal expertise and now with the shock of having a money hungry and spineless lawyer abandon you at the last minute, forecasting an accurate outcome is a bit like trying to predict that a worn out battered and bruised 3 legged greyhound will come first place.

    Although the game at the Family Court circus is rigged with far higher odds against fathers, winning is not always about being triumphant at the conclusion of a Final Hearing.

    Firstly, there are no Final Orders when it comes to children as their needs are dynamic and always need to be reassessed. You could have another final hearing in 2 or 3 years time. This hearing on Monday maybe just one battle of a long war, not necessarily a foregone conclusion to having your kids lost forever.

    If the FC appointed psych and child rep(ICL) are against you overtly or covertly cos you have a pair of coconuts and not in the FC club, there's not much you can do apart from giving it your best shot kicking them all in their nuts where it hurts, including members of the FC fraternity. Fighting for the rights and welfare of your children is paramount and must always be your first consideration, as I'm sure it is.

    On a big picture scale it's a mother's domain with so much history to it, and not personally about you. Of course it's the 'norm' to award mum custody/residence at final hearing time, save rare exceptions.

    Preliminary court advice to a self represented litigant in the absence of the above info made available would be to simply run process, be as clear minded and unemotional as you can, don't buy into all the tricks and allegations of the other side, and don't concern yourself with the outcome, as easy as that may sound.

    The best you can do at this stage for the short and long term, is feel you have been credible, truthful and true to yourself. Saying what you believe is right and important, no matter what your lawyer has told you, what theatrics lawyers and the judge may throw at you, or what you hope or think the outcome maybe.

    In the years to come knowing you did your best with what you knew and the resources you had to keep your kids safe will be what matters. We can't control everything all the time, and where it comes to safety of our kids this can be a hard pill to swallow.

    Put all your concerns/abuses before the court and on the record with as much supportive independent evidence as possible. Abuses must be direct threats to the safety of the child. Abuses that any independent fair minded person would agree with, not just your set of values.

    Good luck!
    desperate father needs advice - By:shane from QLD, Australia on February 2, 2014 @ 10:48 pm
    The family report writer lied about me in her report now my lawyer refuses to go to trial for me on Tuesday he says I willg lose badly against proven child abusers who have lost their kids in2 countries.If I proceedings to trial on my own can anyone suggest a likely outcome.I recorded my son alledging mollestation and torture but they are saying I'm putting it in
    Class action to Sue the governement over - By:Col from WA, Australia on November 24, 2013 @ 11:46 am
    This carries on from my previous comments. It goes like this may be the libs will act maybe they won't if we hear nothing from them in the next couple of months and after the boats issues settles down then they probably won't act to stop discrimination against fathers. If they won't do this then the victims, which are us and our kids need to do something. If normal laws applied victims could sue the people conducting the discrimination of the discrimination. Unfortunately the LAW does not allow you to SUE the Judges or Family consultants and they protect the other snouts in the troughs. So who do you go for is their employers. How do you make it easy you have a class action.

    So who is up for it.

    Join a class action for damages arising from the discrimination meated out by the BASTARD Judges and Magistrates

    Use the ambulance chasers themselves, one of or a bunch of the big class action firms - no win no pay.

    Don't wallow join up.

    I want to hear from people willing to sign up and tell their story. Give the money to your kids for the slow start these bastards are imposing on them.

    Who's up for it?
    What are the libs doing about family law - By:Col from wa, australia on November 24, 2013 @ 7:05 am
    Has anyone had feedback from any Liberal MPs, Senator. I would like to know what feedback was as I tried and got nothing

    Are they planning to do anything or try to get away with doing nothing believing we will still vote for them because they are not quite as bad a Labour and the Greens. If they do nothing I'll vote for the lunatic fringe parties and see where that goes

    Minister 4 Men? - By:Admin from Vic, Austrlalia on November 8, 2013 @ 2:53 am
    F4J is managed by volunteers who are dedicated and give their heart and soul to the cause. F4J is far bigger than any one or many people. It is a symbol of freedom, justice and love for all. However, as just and wise fathers and men what is our focus?

    What are we really trying to achieve in a big picture sense, as well as minor matters? There is no point in running around like headless chooks without clearly knowing what needs to be changed to make life better for all.

    In a bid to seek clarity and unity in an ever changing world, F4J encourages all to have their say in the Minister for Men section.
    http://www.f4joz.com/minister-for-men/

    Should we even have one, or not, as is the present case?

    Also, be sure to add your details for those who are keen to join other members in their state for meetings and protests.
    http://www.f4joz.com/protests/
    There is nothing to stop us. - By:David Mortimer from Milton Keynes, UK on November 7, 2013 @ 9:41 pm
    I am one of the founder members of Men's Aid & we used to operate a customised emailing program which we called the megaphone. We built web site pages which allowed us to send messages to one, some or all of our MP's & Newspapers. I am currently waiting for the guy who wrote the program to install it on
    http://www.ukfamilylawreform.co.uk/megaphone/index.htm

    I'm a long way behind with the things that I need to do but when I've caught up I will starting building a new section to the megaphone which will allow members from all the different help & support groups (who's contact details I've collected over the last 10 years) to let each other know about those who have been successful in the past & co-ordinate our efforts to bring about real change & redress in the future. There is nothing to stop us from demanding real change & redress when enough people are simply willing to help each other & they deal with one issue at a time.
    170. townsville to canberra - By:shane from QLD, Australia on February 2, 2014 @ 10:48 pm
    Your on steve,trying to organise a few things
    see u in canberra - By:shane from QLD, Australia on February 2, 2014 @ 10:48 pm
    If the system in this country acknowlledges a gay couple as equal then why not a father it doesn't make sense but that is now the way of the world
    see u in canberra - By:shane from QLD, Australia on February 2, 2014 @ 10:48 pm
    Thanks steve I don't know what to do anymore I have a lawyer but need a barrister. but no hope of that.legal aid won't help as i guess I'm a bloke.My case is good but I'm not given much hope because I'm the father.Anyway a 6month journey to parliament maybe some dads will show up there the day I arrive in support to show the politicians,judges,report writers etc what they are doing is wrong
    lets give the kiddies back to the paedop - By:shane from QLD, Australia on February 2, 2014 @ 10:48 pm
    My trial date has been set for 2-12-2013 somewhere around that date my son and daughter will be handed back to paedophiles and child abusers who hav lost there kids in 2 countries and 2 states of oz,go figure but I have no hope in this system.In protest. I am riding to Canberra on. horseback from townsville so if u see a lonely cowboy on a horse aling the road in qld or nsw bip your horn in support.when I get there ill set up my swag out front in protest of injustices against all fathers in this shitty system
    Respect - By:Moses from QLD, Australia on October 31, 2013 @ 9:51 pm
    We have all been idiots from time to time Steve. I'm sure you can agree with that. The problem isn't with the opposite sex, it's with ourselves. Just like when you hear men getting married 3 times and getting fleeced 3 times. You sort of wonder why they didn't learn the first time. One bitten, twice shy and all that. Simply, men haven't learnt to unite and stand together unless it's at the football or the pub. Men haven't evolved into a species that values their kids, not really, else there would be thousands marching up the city streets daily disrupting city traffic. No men aren't there yet, not by a long shot, unless it's a money issue like child support, then a few may come out of the wood work. I wonder how many people have registered up for the protest section? Part of a man's nature is the lack of endurance. They get tired. They can run a quick race all fired up and angry but it doesn't last for long. If women are to be given any credit compared with men, it's the fact they sacrifice themselves for their kids, endure and do whatever takes. Show me 10 men who do that and I'll show you 10,000 women. There is far more behind why women get the kids than most men care to admit or want to hear. And this is not a pro speech for women cos I've had the cue stuck up my ass by a useless system so don't get me started down that path else we'll be here for a very long time.
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