Child Support — What does it all mean?
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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children — what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society — not a free Australia — causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
Share your opinion and experiences about the pros and cons of child support,
lifting the veil on a most horrid part of family breakup!
Start writing a comment now...
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Tony CS is not different in each state – there has never been a time when CSA ha asked someone to give receipts to get their payment
This is not true- the CS leg does not specify what it is to be spent on- if someone asked you Robin to do this then they have made up their own rules. Tony is correct CSA are bound by rules to collecy based on the assessment – they cannot check if it is being spent appropriately.
For the parents who have cared for children and been the one getting the money, did you support feed, cloth, educate, drive, power, shoes, other kids, parties, dentist, doctor, a treat, a book, birthday xmas, bikes, balls, sport- the lost goes on-
I am not saying that for high value case where the assessment is large the payee does benefit for that time as they do- the care and the home are paid which the kids need, the food etc- but this ends when your child grows.
Just remember when both parents separated get along they can have a private collect case and work together to direct that money – CSA only collects when one or both cannot get along and the payee asks them to collect it!!
It is really important that you get accurate information especially if you intend to lobby the government for changes (which happened in 2008) as you need to first understand the system to suggest changes.
When Child Support speaks to you about using Actual Care- they mean it. Care is measured across a future 12 mth periods from when the care changed for care events since 1 July 2010.
Now there are circumstances that can go for a different time in special applications like where the judge perhaps orders care to increase over 15mths- but generally for next 12 mths from care change date
This is from CSA website and is what they must follow- The care percentage is determined over a care period.
Prior to 1 July 2010, a care period is the period 12 months from:
• the day on which an application for assessment is made (section 48(1)(a));
• the date the care changed if the Registrar was notified or became aware of the care change within 28 days of that date (section 48(b)(vii)); or
• the date the Registrar was notified or became aware of the care change if the Registrar was not notified or did not become aware within 28 days of the care change (section 48(b)(viii)) (all references to the unamended Act).
From 1 July 2010, a care period is generally a 12 month period from the day on which the actual care of a child changed (the date of event).
Now you speak during going SSAT a new care event occurred with a 16 year old coming to you – there is some detail missing in what you have said but SSAT could not look at this if it was not part of the decision you escalated to them, as it is a new event and to go to SSAT you must have first objected to CSA decisions.
As the child went from one parent to another no terminating event has occurred so you need to tell CSA within 28 days of that care change and when I say tell apply to have the care change – if you waited two months the CSA cannot back date this – they are not doing it to be difficult.
The CSA is bound by the act, so is SSAT. The staff there do not make the rules and are as bound by them as you – there is no discretion in these.
In Change of Assessment applications, and debt negotiations there can be some discretion but still very guided
The people you speak to have a role to educate you though so take the time to speak with them.
Your next issue dad being redundant, he needs to explore estimate options but lump sum payment including redundancy may impact this – however if someone has had drop in income from their last year’s tax they can call and reduce the assessment but when they return to work they will be assessed at their new income and the estimate will be reconciled at the end and if incorrect you will get a debt – so you should always assess the need to lodge an estimate against other factors of when will I return to work, how much will I get etc- and this is not something CSA offer to you, you need to ask as it is your choice to lodge not and obligation.
I support my partner navigate the CSA system.
July 7 2014 - new care assessment. Actual care of child was 77 days in 7 months. CSA said 14%, SSAT said 11% proof of actual care provided.. They kept telling us they assess actual care...but neither agency did ??
NEXT ISSUE: 16 year old comes to live 22/12/14- we advised CSA, but because it was being looked at by the SSAT I thought SSAT would assess it as ACTUAL care (they didn't) and CSA would not action the change of care on 22/12/14 as we asked them not to due to SSAT!@#$ OUTCOME: CSA would NOT action the date of change and and SSAT did not look at it. 2 months CSA was paid for a child not in mother care, Full centrelink paid to mother also. Not only should father not have paid $2400K he should have received $1800K
OMBASMAN did not care either.
NEXT ISSUE: New assessment period Feb 2. Father assessed at full wage despite being recently redundant. Mother who has no care of teenage kids as they are now full time with Dad as of December 2014. Mother earns SA gov wage $72K Rental income $25K and 2nd Income $500 a month and centrelink and $500 child support for one child (who has moved full time with us). CSA set her wage at $65K! It will be the 3rd objection and possible 3rd SSAT since July last year. It is madness and incredibly inequitable. Fathers wage was fully investigate but when asked investigating officer REFUSED point blank to investige mothers wage.# Phone receipt obtained when I called to see what CSA recorded - no mention of my request and no mention of CSA refusal. - powerless
CSA use too much personal discretion and not enough formular.
Havent even told you of mothers capacity to earn and CSA not caring. All seems too hard for them.
System is Broken. 2 years to go/ 14 years behind us - nearly there.
I was a receiving parent
I had to prove where csa payments went to when I was receiving payments 3 yrs ago my x wouldnt pay a thing untill I showed them ( x had to have proof )I had to buy it myself then give rec to csa so the x could say yes or no before I got payments just to get $100 each month then it was up to him to tell me " No they cant have shoes this month or clothes " and the best one was from the x " Why is the food bill so high cant your shop be cheaper " how cheap is it to fed 2 kids? So now I dont bother with proof or even asking for payments just got to hard towards the end. CSA payments were spent on my kids but when I have to show food or bill rec to the x all the time not worth the $100
david77777777777777777777@gmail.com
Check the online child support estimator, it is likely if she is the primary care giver, she can probably earn like $50,000 pa without it effecting how much you are assessed to pay.
I am not sure how they negotiate with my cunning ex who is working cash business and declared only $23k. Are they any good?
Your right my x wont pay either ( just under 20k in back payments ) same here csa told me they cant make him pay as he has no income to pay with but he has a morgage business and 2 cars all on no income and I quote " why dont you just get a job and stop asking " is their responce when I ask about it so now I dont ask them for there help btw I do have a job and work hard to keep a roof over my kids heads.Just wondering if csa work at all or just palm everything off and cant b f*** with helping any1 ?
Apparently all you have to do is change jobs regularly, as it takes up to three months for CSA to confirm with employer and arrange salary deductions.
CSA say they can't 'force' a parent to pay if they don't want to.
Avoid lodging a tax return, work for cash... I'd be happy for the payer to direct where the money Is spent- school fees, books and uniform, rather than be solely responsible.
I too continued to pay the mortgage when we split. When we eventually sold she gets $200k & I get $50k plus a $15k cc debt and an old car (she gets the new one)! The she goes and buys a news house. I'm soon after unemployed, unable to get the dole and borrowing $$$ off my parents just to survive, yet I STILL have to pay child support! WTF!?
I've since manged to turn things around, but I have debts north of $250k and very little in the way of assets. Sure I eat good money (not great, by more than my ex) and she's cnvnced I'm rich? I'm not the one with a $500k house that only has a $250k mortgage. The woman even had the nerve to write a 'sob letter' to both myself and my parents crying for money (it was virtually the same letter) because it was too hard to pay for my children's prgate school fees (a school SHE chose, with no input from me). This is the same woman that just bought a brand new iPhone outright (last one went swimming) and a brand new $35k car blew up due to being too cheep and put standard ULP in it (VW Golf...Premium only ppl).
So yes, in many cases the real problem between ex's is money. That's all mine cares about. She couldn't care less if my new daughter lived in poverty! Yes I have 2 boys to my ex, and a beautiful daughter to my new wife (who apparently is the cause for my first marriage break down, which is strange as I met her > 12 months after I'd left my ex).
I would hazard a guess that most parents who are a victim of the absurdity of the CSA are simply trying to rebuild their lives from nothing. That's EXACTLY where I started. I'm a better person now than I was with my ex. I just want room to breath and room to try to be the best Dad I can be to ALL of my children.
THAT is what all of this is about. By making it about money, it turns people into to evil arseholes...
david77777777777777777777@gmail.com
My ex and the mother of the children works full time and her new busband also works full time. They own 2 cars, 1 cheap like mine and the other they bought brand new around $20k i think. They were living in a very nice $300k town house and i know living very comfortably. They have since sold that town house and purchased a new $430k house and just recently have undergone renovations to it. Their combined income including my child support means they are extremely well off.
Without setting some upper limit for child support this misuse of of my money that CSA forcefully hand over to an ex (not the child) will never end.
We have more recently in the past year due to financial reasons had to move out to an even cheaper share place just so i can save some money for a while and rent out my town house. Since the rental was not paying the cost of the house i had to negative gear it. And with negative gearing i found that child support just add it back so you have to pay the full income even though you had a loss. I think their reasoning is that it's investment and should go up in value but it has not and i have since found cracks in the building which has devalued the property and so struggling to know how to get rid of my town house.
One consequence of money being involved is that parents will fight each other for custody even to the extreme point of false allegations. In my case these included false police reports of which i have solid video evidence and i have also found the courts tell me they do not want to look at the video evidence.
And me, just like from what i've read many other below say, i was nice with money at the start. I let my ex live in the house we had purchased together and i continued paying the mortgage for quite a while. I also purchased a car for her since she asked for an upgrade to the car and she promised to pay it back. Since that promise she did but she claimed depreciation so didn't pay the full amount. If i knew all this time how much she would fight and lie i would never have given her all i had. At least i come out knowing i did what was right but then to be kicked in the face out of being nice is not good. And then to top it off from the CSA on one occasion for me being late a 2nd time in payments and me calling them up to tell them and then threatened by the CSA that they would take funds from my employer is another kick in the face.
CSA say it's for the children's benefit but it is not. To actually benefit the children and to not make the parents crazy i think something major needs to happen with child support. Some things i think that need to change:
-the equation
-setting an upper limit
-parents maybe having to prove how money is spent or maybe rather the paying parent instead buying those items for the children as their payment instead
Not all would agree with my last point but i think the upper limit should be small unless it's proved necessary. My case clearly shows the money i spend has no benefit to the child but simply allows for huge house upgrades.
I am here to fight child support, but I need help from everyone. I want to know what each and everyone of you are going through, if I can put it into statistics it will give us a case to put forward. I work full time and I am building a house and I have a family and I have passion. I studied clinical research and project management, so please contact me and tell me your story.
The CSA...bunch of d!cks. The whole lot of them couldn't give a rats about the people involve. So long as their precious equations are calculated and money goes from one hand to the other their happy. They don't care if one of their decisions lead to bankruptcy of one party or the mental breakdown of the other. They are simple accountants moving money around.
These sh!theads (yes I loath the CSA) need to be held accountable for their actions. How many murder-suicides, mental breakdown, child abudtions, or any other horrific events can be contributed to these parasites?
The calculations these agents use need to include more life factors to account for our complex modern world. They need to really understand the true impact of their decisions and held accountable. They also need to actually consider the children involved! That should be their primary focus!
Asking a question as simple as: "If I force this parent to pay $x, what impact will that really have? Will they be unable to pay bills? May that push their finances beyond breaking? What about other children? Would this action drive them over the edge towards mental breakdown, loss of job, drive them to a criminal act, or possible suicide?"
They won't because they just don't care. They are pencil-pushes, simply following policy & process.
They try to help everyone, but end up helping no-one.
In my case, my narcissistic X uses the CSA to do her dirty work and continuously try's to game the system to screw me for more money. Every time a have a win, she changes tack and tries again! I'm like 99% of other Dad's out trying to do the right thing. Where's our support? Why isn't there someone helping us with our bitter & twisted X's (mine was the one having the affairs, yet I'm the bad guy? Got nothing when we split and forced to pay $'000's that I can just afford and she wants MORE)!
And ppl wonder why guys (and more girls) are put in this I winnable position because we're viewed as the arseholes before we even open our mouths!
Ok, thanks for the vent. It won't change anything, but at least I can share...
/Andy
Yes I had dealings with Child Support Help Australia (CSHA) late last year. Be careful, they are a referral service. In other words they advise you (though they are not licenced legals/parasites) then hand on any legal preparation (deeds/Binding Child Support Agreements...) to the legals under contract to then. They are based in Adelaide and if your case is compelling and straight forward I would recommend then. Be very careful not to go in too deep with them otherwise you could end up paying out over 5K before you know it.
Remember David at the end of the day. They are legals (parasites) making a living out of the Family Law ACT and good on them for helping themselves to your wallet :-)
Take care
John
btw anyone heard of csha.com.au? they contacted me after i filled in a form saying they might be able to help though i hadn't heard of them before.
Sorry to hear about what your x is putting you throu
I have never stoped my kids from seeing their dad its their choise as they are his kids but he made it clear he didnt want more than he asked for and he made his choise to put the new wife first in his life and the kids second. Both my kids ( 13 and 7 ) under stand what has happened I have never hid this from them and they do ask questions about what happened
However, I notified them I was finishing work on the 19th of December in an email, they ignored it as they have said since that we "must" speak to you at the time before they will cancel the monthly obligation amount when you have no income..guess what, I now owe for January at the rate I was being raped for last year.. hmm ah, nothing to worry about.
Mother.. bloody Fu*$ers...
Now my income tax is completed for last year, guess what??, I have to go through the process/es of trying to get a review of the amount I was charged from May until last week to be re calculated down to where it should have been and get that offset against this years obligation or the amount owing.. what do you rate my chances??? big fat ZERO is the answer.. but I will have a go, you have to.
My ex husband has taken my 3 kids and thrown me out of my house with nothing but the shirt on my back. I have no choice but to pay child support that he claimed 2 days after doing this. I would give the world to raise my children 95% of the time and yes I do know how hard this is. Having your kids makes you one of the lucky ones most of the dads and some of us mums are just thrown away like pieces of rubbish and can't access our kids because the law gives our ex the right to take the kids and dictate when, how and where we can see them. Its not greener on the other side, trust me, the court process is extensively long winded and yes the kids are left to suffer without one of their parents. Your ex sounds like he has given up, but you shouldn't keep trying to let your kids see him no matter what, they need you both and please think of us who long for nothing else but to see our kids and be an active part of their lives but can't because the other parent is completely selfish. Each of our situations is unique as is yours. Hopefully your ex will come on board soon.
Hi
Im a mum who has care and control 95% x has 5% ( he gave it to me in court didnt want kids as upset the new wife to much )I had to return to work when my youngest was 8 weeks old as the x left and ( tah was 7 yrs ago ) and he still wont support kids. A lot of mums do go back to work you try raising kids on 795 a fornight all the center link papment I could get not easy
If she has returned to work how is she maintaining the care level..courts now do try to award 50/50 where they can
Robin is only partly correct. You cannot ask for court costs to be considered agai st what you pay for chd support.
For the increase in costs as the ex is withholding care CAN happen. The care is measured based on actual care, and over the next 12mths for aban ongoing care pattern. So if she calls and says I am keeping kids she can apply. Robi is correct that CSA may ask for evidence if you say that change has not occurred however if it has she will be able to get evidence easily and this is not the correct approach.
what you can do if she is withholding care is once you have taken steps to get your care back i.e. mediation or court application you can apply for unterim care decision from the date the care pattern cha ged and for up to 14 weeks. So if yoy take 6 weeks to take steps then you get 8 weeks etc.
CSA must otherwise charge based on actual care and has no choice in this.. hope this helps.
I have a long story, but I will try to condense it. My ex ended our marriage in 2012. I hadn't done anything specifically wrong ie: no affairs, no gambling, drugs, alchol, etc. Just normal. I effectively got evicted from my house, my kids were poisoned against me, my future now uncertain. The ex hid assets in clear view mainly due to her business arrangements. She got the lions share of settlement plus a loading for one child under 18. I got screwed after 21 years supporting the family. The ex tried to destroy me. Contacted my employer, made threats through her thuggish older children (from a previous marriage), wrote character assassinating emails to friends and relatives etc,.. I moved to the uk as my siblings were there and had little close support base left and my kids won't talk to me. I have no income and I'm staying with family. Now the CSA want proof that I am not employed even though I have given them my bank details which should prove that. I am accruing a debt based on my Oz income even though I'm not even there!! They simply won't listen and say the onus is on me to provide proof. They appear to be a law unto themselves in the true sense, with no independent ombudsman to ask for recourse. They are judge and jury it seems. It is no wonder that you hear tragic tales of fathers and their children in the press, because the CSA is simply another weapon the ex-wife can use against the children's father she has discarded. Tim
No u cant ask csa or take her to court for loss of anything the courts will agree with her and state it will put her in distress ( money wise ) plus its not worth it anyway will cost you to much
Anyway csa can not up your payments just because she says you didnt have the kids. She needs to and you can ask csa for this has to prove that you didnt have the kids plus it has to be in writing as well BUT you can put in a order throu the family law courts in sydney stating she breached the orders and the courts will make her hand over the kids. Again will cost but your lawyer should be able to help
My ex has breached our Care Plan Order by withholding my children (for five weeks this time) - two days later the CSA rang me to tell me they were aware of the change to my circumstances and flagged their intention to re-assess my situation. So, she breaks the Order then tries to profit from it - not bad!
My question is this - can I apply through the CSA for re-imbrusement of costs associated with taking her to court (contravention application)? My solicitor seems to think it might be worth asking the question, but wanted to asked someone less biased - can anyone out there help?
I phoned them and they got my number off the re-entry card??
I told them they are not to have my phone number and they have breached my privacy!
They said no they haven't I said yes they have I asked for my number to be removed from my file. This jumped up person who could not make it through uni refused. I told him no worries I'll have it removed today.
I hung up and phoned back immeditetly. The new guy on the other end at the call in centre so no problem He had just removed it.
The guy that phoned me had been told before and he knew it that CSA is not to phone me not ever because thy call in their business hours not mine. They phone about stupid things at stupid times for me and I have to keep an eye on my fatigue management.
Anyway that's my gripe but at least I had a win albeit small..
Paul.
We just need to draw attention from willing politicians who wants to listen and present these issues. I know it's farfetched but if we can get people like that senator who raised that child support case few months back then I'm sure we'll get some traction to our cause.
We all need to come together...I don't no if this means getting petitions started and taking them to the local mp's office or not. But until we try something there will never be a change to our situations...
I'm over struggling, my wife's over it, thankfully my new family is to young to no any better and be psychologically affected by it. It's just crap I can't give my family a life.
Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them.
Anacharsis
Regards
John
To all the dads out there who support their kids a big hands up I think.
The best way to not pay csa is how my x husband gets away with it is. He signed all his assects over to his new wife eg cars house and bussiness plus he put all his bank accounts in her name just over 17k he owes his kids BUT as he ownes nothing as csa keep telling me he doesnt have to pay a thing to my kids.So Im left with raising 2 kids working 3 jobs just to pay the bills. My story so yer
1) FOI Request - read the news of another failed request (by a Commonwelath Senator)in my post of 22/12 (below)
I am afraid if the CSA has somthing to hide (i.e. their incompetance) you have got bucklies!
2) Child Support Calculator:
This calculator available form their website is very good and from my experience accurate too with 1 or 2%
of actuals they (CSA) calculate.
The assumptions for its accuracy though are:
Both your and the 'other parent's income (that they declare to the ATO) is known.
Of course many of you state that there are other incomes from investments etc. well
of course these figures cannot be entered into the calculator. You could use the calculator though
as a test of their 'hidden income' to ask that 'what if' question.
CSA Calculator:
http://www.humanservices.gov.au/
Select “Child Support” – “Calculate – estimate payments and care”
3) Care %
Basically formula assessment works its magic no secrets here, and you can find details on their site in the
form af a downloadable PDF. If you have 0% care (as I do) all of your share of child care funds automatically
is credited to the other parent who gets to spend it how they like - no issues with that. Its the result
of crap laws. Suck it in or leave the country - as has been suggested by myself and a few other brave souls.
Hope this helps and good luck because you will need it. Crap laws are crap laws. Its the pollies that
can change this. Although we don't actually live in a democracy - it just appears like one.
Cheers
John
Can I ask why you end up paying so much more per week now that your daughter turned 18?
Sounds awful to have experienced so much financial agony in your situation but I hope it all goes well for you.
Cheers and I hope you make it mate.
Dene
I'm a divorced dad seeking advice. I have 2 girls aged 6 and 8 who I don't get a chance to see anymore. I've learnt to accept this now as it'd inevitably come to this anyway as I'd be raising my own family with my current partner and my ex with hers.
However since I have 0% nights in care, I pay the maximum based off CSA's calculations. During the past 2 years however, I've had small pay increases which really affects our financial stability because the payments jump by 30-50% every time this happens. With planning for a baby in mind next year, and an upcoming mortgage I'll need to budget for (had to depend on my parents for the full 20% deposit), minus the bills, food and travel costs...i'm left with pretty much no savings.
My partner was planning to stay at home and look after our baby for at least 6-12 months(this is her first marriage and child) so we wanted to make this period a special bonding time for her as a mother. But at this rate, and after doing CSA calculations, having a child doesn't really reduce the payments to my ex so I'm seriously stressed about how we can afford this without both of us working full time.
I've tried talking to my ex to arrange payments privately, but she refuses to budge and says CSA calculations were intended that way for a reason...and after I explained that the weekly payments are well more than enough to cover for my 2 girl's expenses and asked her to reduce the amount so I can sustain my own situation, she uses the excuse that it's their "right" to that money because I'm the father on their birth certificates.
My ex has an investment property which she rents out privately and doesnt disclose this income to the ATO. She's also bought a new car and new mortgage with her bf...I'm pretty sure most of my child support goes towards "her" expenses rather than the girls. All the while my partner and I will be struggling to get by without much support - stressing about the impact if we do decide to have a baby next year.
Anyone who's been in my situation can you offer some advice?
Have you managed to get by and have a comfortable lifestyle whilst raising your new family and pay the mortgage etc. in conjunction to the ongoing CSA payments? Any financial tips are welcomed.
What other options do I have? e.g. salary sacrifice to reduce my taxable income, leaving the country, stay at home dad while partner works etc.
This is already taking a toll on me psychologically...I get so stressed every time just thinking about this.
Appreciate if you can help!
Kind regards,
Ed
Yes I sympathise with your situation. It always seems so hopeless and you are alone fighting a big Cwlth Govt Agency.
The best advice I can say is to consult your local shire Library for information on Legal aid. Often they provide a free service for those on low income (not you). You may be able to obtain legal advice from a quasi State Govt legal aid such as here in the NT I use:
http://www.dcls.org.au/contact.html
At the end of the day you will need leagal advice and like me you cannot affort to pay for it. The CSA is filled with unsucessful Lawyers and they in conjunction with the Family Law Courts make it expensive for us to achieve anything near a fair go! The only way forward is to engage (legals = parasites) against other legals - unfortunatly. I have spent several thousand so far but it has been worth it becasue I will
be leaving this country shortly forever. This is unfortunate for me and my children but of course the CSA/FLC is not really aabout YOU or your Kiddies.
Good luck Sam
John
I accrued a debt to CSA and started paying it back, only for interest and fees to increase it to some ridiculous amount! I am at a loss as what to do because according to CSA, with my income I should be paying $1000 a fortnight.
I tried to explain that I have bills (rent, car, living expenses) but they didn't care. They told me to move to a cheaper area & get rid of my bills. ?????
I also know for a fact that he is not giving any money to our child, who is almost 16. Can anyone please tell myle that since when does a16yo go through $800 a month????
I can't afford a lawyer because of how much CS is taken out of wage. So my experience with them is nothing but negative.