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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
There is no hope
We are all fucked
Even if somebody did manage to get up and attempt to change things would be kicked out sacked ridiculed or accused of some bullshit to justify kicking them out to "MAINTAIN FULL AND ULTIMATE CONTROL"
Our governement is in place to keep us in our place that is their job
so what do you think they are going to do if one of us gets up and upsets their little luxury nest????
pretty easy fkn awnser
FUCK THE SYSTEM
AND FUCK ANYONE WHO AGREES WIH THEM
In 2022 I'll say fk off to csa ,after 17.5 years of paying top dollar,for a child taken to another state,without my consent.
My son will say fk off to me after 17.5 years of being lied to poisoned and isolated from me.
I think that petitions or other group actions wont do too much. Do you think these scum lawers and legal maggots/politicians ,who make billions on this bullshit show called family law, will just walk away from their money bag and their lifestyle it gives them?. The legal system is buddy buddy with those scum politicians .
Maybe try contacting crocodile dundee or Russell Crowe or even dick smith to shed some light on this fking disaster.
2022 this sentence is over for me and im counting every day.
Revolution dreaming, Trump 2 for OZ.
The group invites all supporters choosing to support our course. Uncles aunts, Grandparents, Sisters, brothers, children, friends, observers, work colleagues, authorities, anyone who gives a fuck. Come on dude let's try some positively and less paranoia. Feel the love man. Let's amoungst it. WE ARE COLLECTIVE.
1.Keep a dairy of each contact Date receipt no person
2.Insist on copy of Cuba notes posted to you, These are the notes they put on their computer. Mostly will be lies,
Insist on copy of recording they make with each call
3. check your recollection or recording received against Cuba notes
4.Insist on a case Manager from day one. This pushes you up the ladder to a higher level and prevents you getting calls from all over Australia by people that know nothing of your case.
5. If you had been "private collect" then changed to "agency collect" you have on "opt in time to respond" of at least 28 days. All CS staff will deny this and lock in the generally requested three month back pay
5 Do not give them your email, Insist on post.
6. Do not give them an estimate until you understand all its implications
7.http://operational.humanservices.gov.au/public/Pages/SiteMap/separated-parents.html use this to find their rules
8. Also use this http://guides.dss.gov.au/child-support-guide/4/1
9. don't be afraid to send a "formal complaint" if they have not followed the rules
10 If you have no money to pay they will record this as a "refusal to pay" and will not tell you you can apply not to pay anything under financial hardship
"Change of assessment in special circumstances (CS) 277-03120000" and/ or "Minimum annual rate to nil - Reducing child support assessments 277-03100000"
11. If coming of "private collect" this means your ex has applied under an "AFC" "Application for Child Support to be collected 277-04030000" despite what the document says The "acceptance date" is when the request was placed it cant be locked in for at least 28 days after. If hassled get a letter from them refusing to change and take them to the "AAT"
12. Put in your letter to AAT that this is strictly a procedural thing and that Child Support should be on the phone when determining the outcome other wise it will be your ex on the phone
Pas - don't think she can back date anything 3 years. 3 months is the most from memory, but if you had an agreement, and you met that agreement, then I find it difficult to think she could get anything turned over - contract is contract.
jimmy - have just been through those processes, so if you want to chat about it, give me your contact info and I will give you a call.
I was paying the wrong amount by far', and he helped me get a new assesment that saved me a shitload... it cost me about 1200 for 1 years representation but those people dont call me anymore they have to call him and he deals with them he calls me from time to time to touch base is all.
Now we are persueing the 900 days i was out of the country and not a resident for tax purposes where on return CSA charged me for the whole time i was away based on the assesment in place at the time i was still in the country..... it was a shit load and the only way you CANNOT" be held responsible for paying child support is in their legislation and it is if your dead or a non resident for tax purposes which i was... And they did not give a fuck about the legislation it was the perception of a csa representative and she made that decision so we are fighting that to get compensation from them ... then i am going to sue them for whatever i can.
So in terms of help and good advice for you.... give Laurie a ring and tell him Lenny from darwin on F4J Website put you on to him have a talk and he will either be able to help or not but he morethanlikely will be able to help you.
I tell you that it has been soooooo good not having to deal with csa on the phone or at all just let laurie and his team do it and you can at least keep your sanity
Just thought id share that bit of good news
stay strong keep your shit together i know its hard but theres more than one way to skin a cat
my ex partner and i have had a private arrangement for 3 years which we both agreed on and also notified centerlink
one of the children are now living with me there for i want to change the amount of child support i am paying.
my ex partner is now saying i need to back pay her the correct amount for the 3 years. is that correct? i haven't spoken to child support yet but if we had an agreed private arrangement and now that one of the children are living with me firstly m i with in my rights to review that amount i am paying and secondly can she actually make a claim with child support for me to back pay 3 years ?
This is not so much to avoid paying child support as I want to and do support my kids massively financially and as a parent.
It is more for my lifestyle. I work in a hugely stressful job with quite high pay but after tax and child support very bad pay.
I could handle the job if I saw the reward for it. I have always wanted the satisfaction of doing my own thing, I have had a go at it quite some years ago and failed, but that was a valuable lesson.
I am looking at starting in 6 years or so otherwise.
Would like to hear from others that have done this.
Well where do I start. I have just that the CSA do an assessment on me again after my last assessment ran its course, before it was set at $3200 per month. Although I was not working....... Yes, they believed I was some millionaire. So with it being set so high I left Australia and moved abroad so I could at least live as $3200 per month I never earned, never mind support my other child and new partner.
Anyway my last tax return was put in with a figure of 22K in place and agreed and accepted by the ATO but yet again the CSA have changed my taxable income to 81K this is due to a form 8 my ex partner put in. I have responded, as you have too, stating not working etc. I am stuck abroad and I cannot see my kids as I know when I come back I will have a DPO put on me.
When I called the CSA they came up with the 81K due to my answers I gave in a AAT hearing in March which was to try and reduce the $3500 per month, as we men know a total waste of time, not the response to the form 8 I filled in last month. Absolute S.... but hey that is the CSA. At that time I stated I was getting loans from friends and family to survive which they put down as income. Absolute S... again.
I was hoping they would use my taxable income of 22K so I could try catch up on my debt. Does this seem right? What is the best response as I have 28 days to answer. Please advice need to try and see my kids.
Have an account in your wife's name only. They are legally not allowed to touch it. Or put any extra money into your mortgage.
Get used to it because these arseholes told my husband that his first 2 children come first. Our 2 that we have togeather have missed out on heaps as we have struggled for the past 15 years. It not only takes a toll on you blokes but it surely takes a toll on the 2 nd family. We have been to hell and back with his ex bitch and we even had a restraining order on her. Start writing to Pauline Hanson and Derry hitch. This crap has to stop
It leaves me constantly dealing / coping with a whole range of
issues mentally emotionally phisically im an introvert now when before i was a happy easy going guy who could make a friend anywhere to now... not talking to anyone has nothing nice to say full of negetivity cant hold a job short tempered and frustrated to the max and just generally fucking pissed right the fuck off"!
So how do i fix it? play their game and be broke and pay what i dont owe because thats what its all about money money money no fucking mention of the most important issue here is there?" the well being of the poor kids who are now of the belief i dont wanna see them and their hearts are torn as i struggle in the background barely surviving they are getting the wrong messages and theres fuck all i can do"! its fucking killing me man"1 im broken into so many pieces i dont know if even when they are old enough to see me weather or not i will be able to function mentally enough to cope with explaining the whole saga to them so they will understand is it worth it?
FUCK THIS SYSTEM YOU FUCKWITS WHO VOTED THESE WOMEN INTO PARLAMENT LOOK AT WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO US"!
And also where is the senator for mens affairs? SURPRISE" there isnt one"! but that would be discriminatory to have one wouldnt it ...!!!!! Fuck me the fucking white trash bitches have one ..."SENATOR MICHAELA FUCKING "CASH"!!! CASH"! CASH"! How fucking ironic and i have to swallow this shit these cunts come up with OMFKING GOD PLEASE"!!!
Im so over this cunt of a system what can we do? its too big a problem for one person to deal with... we need a senator for mens affairs and we need it "YESTERDAY AS A MATTER OF URGENCY"!! IF EVERYONE WROTE OR PERSONALLY WENT IN TO THEIR MALE LOCAL MEMBER AND DEMANDED IT MAYBE JUST MAYBE THEY WILL START LISTENING I DONT KNOW"! BUT WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING.
OR ELASE WE ARE ALL FUCKED"!
A couple of years back my husband continued paying his ex wife for 100% care of his twins. 17 at the time but both earning over $320 per week. Child support informed us nothing could be done, but later called to have him stop paying for them 1 month before they turned 18. In all that time they were earning ALOT of money and he continued to pay but she was never required to pay it back? Do we stand a chance in claiming this back through small claims court? It's a total of $7000.
I've also just seen that in the 3 years after separating you can save 30% on child support payments. Child support really does a great job of hiding this don't they! I've just worked out where my husband was paying $500 a week he could have been paying $200!!!! A $300 a week saving!!! Child support has NEVER given him these details. This is a total of $35k that he has overpaid this money hungry cow. Surely that's a form of theft and negligence on behalf of child support? This woman is living a life of luxury and we are struggling!! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
how do you suppose you will support yourself for that time?
what will be your income?
who will you be working for?
To which i replied : i will live of our [my filipino wives and my savings]
Secondly i replied : i will not have an income, which was 100% truth.
Thirdly: i am not working for anyone except volenteering to help those people in my wives family whose homes blew away and local people in and around their village.
The CSA Man hater exclaimed " well we will get your wife to pay and garnashi her account then"!!!
This is the time when i lost my shit"! after various exchanges of obcenities between myself and this piece of white trash rubbish i was verbally arguing with, to which i was surprised she went on for so long at it against me, i told her i was totally dissatisfied with her reasoning and her threats were against the law and i wanted to be put through to complaints immediately..."!
I was put through to complaints and straight away i told the other white piece of manhating trash to listen to the recorded phonecall before i spoke another word..... i waited for 10 minutes and white trash No# 2 apoligised for keeping me waiting and said Sir i apoligise to you profusely this reprasentative had no right to say the things she said please accept our apologies..."!!!?
I told her no wonder men commit suicide and shoot their exe's or the bloke who back doored him that is now living in his house playing daddy to his kids is'nt it HUH"!!!
Because of people and governement departments that have absolutely no fucking idea of what they are doing to for the mostly honest men who are bieng discriminated, ostricised & persicuted only for the lack of fair and just policies that you are trying to enforce"! you should be ashamed of yourself playing god in your position i told her and if you were really sorry you and your entire group of work collegues should quit your jobs immediately and walk out in support of us men "!!!
This hard line statment made by myself was met by a minute of silence by the complaints officer... and i said i rest my case and hung up and next week jumped on a plane and went to the philippines and did as i said i was going to do... i was out of the contry for 900 days in total or close enough to it, when i arrived in australia immmegration called my wife and myself over to another counter where they took their time but essentialy notified csa i was back in the country, i was broke skinny tired and worn out, i got a job earning great money when i put my tax return in they pounced on me saying i owed for the last 900 days the amount i was paying per month before i left"... these fucking cunts.... i am at war , i havent seen my kids as the mother thinks "i owe it" "REALLY" SERIOUSLY"! This whole place is fucked i cant describe how i feel but i know it isnt good, non productive to say the least... what of my new wife does she continuously have to watch me go through this bullshit and get fed up and find a happier life ... you pack of "DOGS"! Hide behing your iorn curtain while you can " justice and fairness and the big one CARMA Will prevail.. i spit on you you peices of shit
I suggest we start a petition on change.com then spread the word.
Maybe the petition could be to Malcolm Turnbull to enact an urgent review of the powers of the Child Support Agency.
Secondly - to review the structure around payments to take into account family income not just individual income (especially relevant where a mother marries into money and still milks child suport.
Thirdly - for all receiving parents to provide a budget for how the child support will be spent
Fourth - to review the linkages between child suport payments and access to children.
Happy to be of service but I think this should be done by the forum leaders.
I am really curious to see if anybody can advise me about this travel ban bullshit that they can do.
In my last call with my "case officer", she advised me that a travel ban "can be put into place if I fail to pay". Now, I've got a "debt" of ~$4,000, but much of this is "remittance and penalties" WTF? I've been paying at $500 per month since she told me this.
Conversely, I (stupidly) signed a stat dec saying that my ex can take the girls overseas any time she likes.
I'm leaving for five days on Wednesday, I've already done an electronic check in with my passport number etc. Does anybody here think I will be stopped at the airport and not allowed to leave?
Forgive my language, but if I don't get this fucking break, I will lose my fucking mind. I work in a high stress job. I was able to leave last year for five days.
If these CSA pricks block me from my travel (all paid for) I swear I will quit my job and live off of the welfare state!
Does anybody have any experiences in this area?
Sorry to hear about what they have done to you.
If you have a debt they can garnishee your wages, bank accounts....any asset in your name under what is call a 72a application.....no court order just take. Government sanctioned theft.
The person or Company that the application is served on has great financial penalties if they don't comply.
That is why .....if you have any debt....don't have assets or accounts in your name, joint account, partnership or sole trader....with your name on it. Only some trusted significant other, son mother father etc. If you are able.... a Company or Trust you are not the beneficiary of...or... cash under the bed. Yes you can file court actions to get it back....but that means money to solicitors and no guarantees that you WILL get it back. Money you don't have with no guarantees of winning.
Its a shit system
Cheers - Roy
We can write all day on forums, but I agree we need to be in the streets to be visible to media, which is what a lot of people are saying on this thread. I have dealt with the same issues as most of you for the past decade and continue to deal with alienation of my beautiful 15yo daughter. I reckon we could definitely get a strong movement going if we do the following (just draft points though - happy to hear anyone's input):
1: Start awareness of an impending public protest to gather everyone together
2: Select an important day that's relevant to us all (I'm thinking September 3, 2017 which is Father's Day.
3: Give the movement a name and use social media to spread initial awareness
4: Have a platform (facebook page) where information can be posted to keep people aware of activity
5: Get all the other father's groups together (online and offline) to join us
6: Get women behind the movement too
7: Plan the day with everything that's required
8: Execute the day with heaps of media coverage
9: Do it all again the next year, and the next year ...
It's a lot of work, but the only way we can change anything is if we put action to our words. I personally am happy to help form a group of men (or women) who want to start work on this now. If we start now we can generate lots of media attention prior to the event. It takes of lot of motivated people to get something like this happening, but we can do it, and it will definitely work even as a start. Everyone's input is welcome, no matter how big or small your contribution.
I have set up an email called firstname.lastname@example.org for you to contact me and express your interest or even share your story. I will compile your stories as part of a document (like a dossier) to present to whichever politician is courageous enough to speak on the day.
I'm based in Melbourne, but anyone can be involved using Skype, so everyone is welcome.
Let me know your thoughts
I am concerned as a Mother and Grandparent that our children and grandchildren will become more and more hardened by society and therefore lose their ability to think clearly with respect and honesty.
I rest my case.
A loving Mother and Grandparent.
12 years of separation, thousands spent, thousands taken including 8 years of tax returns that were not counted towards outstanding debt, 2 years of scraping together the last bit of a $52000 debt to finally get the CSA mouth breathers and the black hole of souls ex-wife off my back so I can regain some ability to buy kids XMAS and Birthday presents instead of saying "Sorry kids, Dad can't afford it because they took all my money", only to get home today to find a back debt of $10135.53 because of late penalty fees dating back to 2010......I don't personally hate their staff but if in this lifetime if I get the opportunity to lay a giant turd on the desk of the asshat that pushed the button on that damn computer without talking to me..I'm going to bloody well do it!!!
P.s government snoopers if you're reading this, I'm eagerly awaiting your court order...Pricks
I know it is little comfort but the kids will come back when they are older and have control of their own lives, so long as it is only positive talk from you guys. As sad as it is, life changes forever in divorce and the parent you hoped to be is no longer what you can be. But you still have control over the parent you are when the kids are with you. Look out for that man of yours like you have been doing. Best of luck to you.
Could you 2 please write to Pauline Hanson as we have done. I am in exactly the same situation and have watched my husband go through hell for 15 years his ex did exactly the same once the kids got to 13 that was it.
Pauline Hanson, Derry hunch and any others you can think of need to know about what goes on. This affects our relationships as well and if you 2 have children to your husbands it is our kids that miss out
Please I beg you to write to them. If you scroll further down you will see a few letters we have written
I wish I could do something for all these men being wrongly charged. My husband has been a 50/50 dad for most of his boys lives since we have been together, nearly 10 years. The boys are now 13 and 15 and their mother has manipulated them into not wanting to stay with their dad anymore. This has almost driven my husband to suicide. To make things worse, she is a Physiologist and runs her own practise, so you can see how she could get to her own kids heads. My husband would drive 6 hr round trip when they were little just to watch them get an award at school. He has been there for them ALWAYS. one son has not spoken to his dad for over 3 months now and i see the devastation in my husbands face. The older boy has just started texting his dad and catching up for dinner. To rub salt in the wound, the ex has now told child support she has care 100%. Although this is true, it is NOT what my husband wants, and she won't tell the boys to even call their dad. She lives in an $800,000 house, has her own practise, goes on overseas holidays every year, owns 2 cars, 2 harley's, caravan, boat just to name a few toys. while my husband and I have rented since we got together, because we can't afford to even go away for the weekend and she claims she only makes $30,000 a year. It sux. We both work full time jobs and try to do the best we can, but we are being screwed over. Yes, this is my side of the story but why can't assets from both parties play a part and both parties living circumstances, also the net wage not the gross wage???? I am sooooo frustrated that I cannot help my hubby's emotional state being away from his boys and now them having a choice, they don't want to see their dad because we can't afford to do anything with them.
Just had some thoughts about spreading some awareness, since as some of you ,here, talk about taking some action.
The saying goes "people power "right.
All the writing to mp's and media dont work ,these pompous people don't care. They're the cause not the solution.
So I humbly propose to get as many of us suffering souls and to create the most outrageous/crazy,loud spectacle this country has ever seen. Block the Sydney hubour bridge with about 1000 people chained together and mad as hell. With banners and loud pa systems. This might sound crazy but i bet this would create shock waves. And if they dont listen then do it again until change comes about.
Do we have a petition at change.org or anywhere, I have noticed a lot of people have sent in letters to members, but there is nothing coming back and no real indication that anyone is really listening.
What collectively can we all do, we have been all screwed over by the system and our ex's we need action now.
Let's get some ideas together before they start resitting soon.
I know this is a men's site, but hardworking people either men or women that have kids with an evil Ex, have just the same problems.
Everyone keep your heads held high and proud don't let them get to you.
The parent with care can apply for payments after a child is 18 until the end of the final year of school. E.g. If the child turns 18 in April 2017 and school finishes November 2017 then they want you to pay until November 2017. I was also told by a Solicitor they can apply for more payments after that if a child does further study e.g. University... but you can argue that the child is capable of earning an income… it would be very rare that someone would be required to pay after the final year of school.… Make an effort to find out the final day school finishes (call the school) and make sure the asssessment finishes the same day, otherwise, write and complain.
Just remember....you are information to them....everything you say is recorded....even while you are on hold. Your voice print is recorded so they keep a file so even if you deny who you say you are on the phone your voice print gives you away.
They have gone through your background without your knowledge as they did with my wife. We found out through a freedom of information request.
As it is you are the only way they get to your husband if he wont talk to them.
Remove that access!
Please don't stress....its a game. You are in a great position to use your company to your benefit. People on wages don't have the luxury that we have.
1. No it is illegal. Just cut contact with them. YOU DON'T NEED TO TALK TO THEM OR ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR HUSBAND'S DEBT. YOU MEAN NOTHING TO THEM!
If they cannot contact him....then they need to find another way. Don't put yourself in the middle. Your husband can ignore them and they can do squat. Just document your husbands ( legal )finances to be used at a later....much later date.
2. I am sure you can claim a percentage without even asking the ex wife but as I haven't in the past I'm not sure. Maybe someone on this forum knows more.
3. As it has NOTHING to do with you you CAN'T get into trouble. Remember it is NOT your debt and as such have no responsibility to pay.
Finally.....give them NOTHING...!!
The worst they can do to him is stop him leaving the country. Everything they do and say to you is bullying bluff and coercion. They cannot jail him. The law does not allow jail time for not paying Child Support. I have been there.
It's a game....treat it as such. They can't get blood from a stone....then again if you can't pay....don't. Like I said....the worst is a DPO, and that means nothing if you don't want to leave the country.
My email is email@example.com if you want to PM me and I will give you my mobile.
Thank you for your reply and advice. Much appreciated. After seeing what they were capable of and taking what little money we had that time I am just frightened they will do it again.
1. can they take money from a company / Trust account purely because he works for it without pay? She kept asking me why he works full time without pay, I explained purely because the business cannot afford to pay him. We have employee's and we need them so they are paid first and foremost. Naturally we hope things pick up so he can get paid :)
2. Any way we can fight them on the amounts already paid directly to child, even though they have rejected them because the mother said she didnt accept it. And even though the child told us that the mother would take any money the child had in her bank account, even an inheritance she received.
3.Will we get in trouble if we now go back on what I have agreed to? I have already paid them from my business as she bullied me into a payment up front and agreeing to an ongoing montly payment which i had explained we cannot afford. I offered her the same amount weekly that he used to be billed for so i figured that would be ok. She said no, they wouldnt accept that? She knows our financial situation as i explained oit all, even breaking it down to what i get paid and the fact that majority goes straight into rent. She has put it in her diary to call me in a months time to find out how I am going with sale of business and or getting loan to pay out debt. She told me usually in this situation the partner will obtain a loan to pay it off. It hard to know what to say and what not to say because i dont know our rights so i do appreciate your feedback.
I was about to send them proof of having no money left after we sold the house because she questioned why we didnt pay our debt to CSA when we sold the house. The minimal amount we came out of sale with went straight into a rental which we are in now. I was also going to send a cover letter detailng once again our situation, what damage the CSA have already done and the frustrations we have faced with this debt and payments not recogised because the mother denied it.
I was about to send them proof of having no money left after we sold the house. The minimal amount we came out of sale with went straight into a rental which we are in now. I was also going to send a cover letter detailng once again our situation, what damage the CSA have already done and the frustrations we have faced with this debt and payments not recogised because the mother denied it.
Great advice Neil thank's mate..
Will please mate if you need a chat and to be able to vent some of the shit your going through call me
0419926521 more than happy mate to help.
Remember bud you are not alone.
My F'n Demon just tried to have me arrested again for a text that my Mother (the kids Grandmother) send my x 4 kids on my phone..
Keep up the fight Will, we are here for you mate.
DJ great idea mate I'm onto them too, keep up the fight mate.
Remember everyone if you need a chat about anything call me or text me and I will get back to you.
It's only together that we will have a voice for change...
Be strong everyone...
Will from Q'land hang in there mate don't do anything rash.
Chin up. Your family loves you.
It CSA conflict WILL end eventually....I am out the other side of 20 years of courts, jail threats attempted jailing's DPO's etc. etc. now and it does get better.
My kids x 4 still love me and that's all I need to know and as they are older now...26-32.. they understand what I went through.
It WILL end....please make sure you are there at the end...your kids need you.