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Who wants to be dictated to by the State on how you support your children what, how and when?
Whilst many views float around arguing for and against child support, most decent fathers and parents would argue the issue is not whether or not they wish to support their children, but rather the often unfair conditions imposed upon them.
Simply, it's an attack on the nature of a father's freedom and how he best wishes to raise and support his children in the many different ways a responsible father can, which are often more effective and benefical to a child than any 'slap-bang' instrument of government and statism can ever be.
For a father going through separation/divorce, experiencing the loss of family and children, horrendous false allegations, litigation, uncertainty of where your children are and how they are doing, often causes ill health, work and life instability in so many ways. Also, the effects from not having a fully functioning and emotionally present Dad in a child's life can be equally, if not more devestating as their development can be hindered considerably.
Then if that isn't bad enough, along comes an assessment from the Child Support Agency (CSA) for an outlandish sum of money based on your capacity to work at the highest rate when you were fit and able and on fire, which is possibly a stark contrast to where your financial position is today, or will be in the future if you are unable to recover from the upheaval of a traumatic separation that's often compared to a fate worse than death.
From 2006 CSA powers in Australia have increased to not only garnish your wages, but directly withdraw from bank accounts any amount they deem appropriate, siezing assets of any sort to pay the often highly questionable and unjust debts. As Fathers are assaulted with such draconian measures, one can only feel a sense of dictatorship giving rise to a totalitarian society not a free Australia causing fathers to unite and fight for their rights and freedom.
As there are many issues surrounding child support and the effects upon fathers, children and families,
1) You've separated/divorced. Primary carer wants/needs financial support (cash) from you as other parent.
2) If primary carer does not get this through a property settlement or child support agreement between parents (both ways recommended), they often make application to CSA. If they seek a Welfare/Centrelink benefit they have no choice but to first show evidence of a CS agreement or application to CSA.
3) Non primary parent then receives CSA notice of say mother's claim and request for father's particulars of income, % child care details etc. At this point, if you are not the father you must rebut the presumption that you are. The mother will have to provide irrefutable evidence that you are (ie. DNA). Whatever you do, don't deal with CSA.
4) If you have fathered the child/ren for many years, suspect they're not yours and want to possibly end the r'ship with your kid/s over a few dollars, then this is the time to seek proof of paternity. Otherwise if they are yours, you have fathered them and want to continue and don't object, the presumption stands.
5) If you are caught by the CSA machine and work for someone as an employee, you are pretty much fucked. They know what you earn, can garnish your wages and seize any crazy amount the CSA say is owed from any tax return or bank accounts (which don't belong to you anyway).
6) If you can afford whatever the CSA demands and takes from you great. Usually they start low, get you on the agreement hook, and then they can jack up the charges. If this is not for you, you have to create a company/trust entity being different from the entity you know as your name and then pay yourself a modest sum. Yes, this will mean leaving a job as you know it and making changes. Perhaps you can contract with your previous employer.
7) Alternatively, go on welfare/Centrelink benefits and be protected by the ceiling of say $30/fn and maybe setup a new entity/income on the side.
So that's it. For those unsure about when the agreement was first formed, it was when the man and woman consented to that act of lust and pleasure and did the deed. Agreements get stronger with time making them harder to terminate. So too does refuting any presumption of fatherhood.
The most important part about all of this is to be responsible for your kids in whatever way you can, but if the ex-partner is being unfair and unreasonable, don't contemplate taking your life as this doesn't serve any good, least of all for you, your children, family, friends and the positive difference you can make in the world. Never forget this! Just use a remedy that allows you to live fairly too.
And yes keep away from dealing with the CSA at all costs. Don't respond, write or call them. Don't contract with them. Make them insignificant because their terms are unfair and one-sided with their antics worse than Nightmare on Elm St.
The only way to abolish the CSA racket is by not using and empowering it, otherwise your participation will only serve to dis-empower yourself; sending you crazy and broke in the process as it sucks your energy dry.
Remember: Fairness and CSA are not synonymous so give it a wide berth !!!
I’m the partner of a payer of child support.
He divorced her ex 13 years ago and still she goes out of her way to have my partner reassessed by child support.
Recently, he received a change of assessment using reason 3 + 8.
Long story short. Her application was full of fraudulent statements and only partially filled in.
Even after responding CSA didn’t take anything he said into consideration.
Why partner objected and provided evidence and documents supporting his reasons. CSA didn’t even address them in the objection decision letter.
The stage we are at now is AAT.
It’s been so stressful for both my partner and myself, with the new inflated payment we have to find we are sure to lose our house.
Obviously as I feel an injustice has been done I started researching and have read both the acts this department follows trying to find a way to help my partner. I also google his ex’s name.
OMG what I found was shocking.
She has 8 registered businesses which she omitted on her CoA application, she is also in a family trust, again this wasn’t on the form. She claims Centrelink payments as well. I then found her business page and even watched videos of her. (She apparently is a personal trainer)
With this ammunition I reported her to CSA and Centrelink for fraud. Will anything happen? Probably not but it made me feel better.
Anyway, my partner still has to go to AAT but now we have even more evidence to support his case. I’m still not convinced that anything will change after the tribunal as from what I’ve read not many people have a good result.
The system needs huge overhaul, inc sack all the brainwashed people who work there. Fathers are not 'wrong' because we are gathers. Assess total family income for both families. Both parents pay into bank account for child based on submitted budgets.....the list is long my friends
If there are no orders, let the kids speak their concerns to dad direct. Do they not want to be with him for the holidays or just not to the farm. If the kids don't directly want to be with dad, and its their uninfluenced desire, then so be it, they stay home with mum, but mum has no basis to issue any claim for any amount as how is it dads fault?
Depending on the current r'ship and time between kids and dad, sometimes kids find it hard to leave the primary carer, especially if say mum is not promoting a r'ship and good time with dad. It's a thing called exit and entry in r'ships. Sometimes it's that initial awkwardness for kids and the contact parent which first has to be understood and then overcome gradually. However, get passed this both kids and adults can have a ball.
peoples thoughts please.!!cheers
This system is broken beyond repair. I can't afford to even feed my two younger children and am unable to even have the child I am paying the support for visit as I can't provide anything for him.
How is this 'thinking of the child'? It's past a joke. I really need help in circumventing this wrong system - NOT avoid supporting my children - but making sure ALL of them are looked after and not just the mother of ONE child! ANY help would be very appreciated. Legal, illegal - I don't care anymore - I have been doing the right thing since this all began - and I can't survive anymore, so why should I? The system doesn't account for those doing the right thing!
& how can she arrange this without my consent, & they take it without even informing me they are going to??
Enuff said it sux shit 🖕🏼
Then came me and our daughter a couple of years later but I know he didn’t have much so I was left to provide for our family
Next the mother takes him to court as he could afford the kids braces (cosmetic) and lavish school camps and activities. He has been paying all essential items for them. Plus all there non essential medical eg massages. What does the judge say “it’s in the best interest of the kids” cough up another $11,000, oh but you can pay it off in 24 months. Also that’s the mother’s good luck that she gets government benefits, school camp, excursions funded. No wonder my poor husband is broken, his lost his everything and now we have to find an additional $11,000 on top of everything else. Where is the justice and fairness. I have to work to make ends meet and we are just above the threshold to receive any benefits. Sometimes I wonder what’s the point of working!!
First, how do you get a dog to perform tricks??? Simple, offer it a reward or food. ie. something the dog sees as a benefit.
How does the govt/csa get usually a mum to perform tricks for them, ie. get jurisdiction to extract money from the payer?? Simple, offer the payee (usually mum) a Centrelink benefit, or in actual fact withhold any benefit from the payee until application for child support is first made against the payer.
In other words unemployed mums are generally induced into making a CSA application to get Centrelink payments, in order to survive and out of ignorance. Sometimes it's spite,, granted. As for all the good and fair mums, it is often not their fault or deliberate intention to purposefully screw any good Dad. It's a devilish system and definitely in need of an overhaul and trip to the tip!
Like many of you, I have a career welfare hag as a former partner. 20 years in the system because she thinks she's entitled to be a stay at home mother regardless of who pays.
Until recently I was paying $15600 a year for my son Cody. Due to her greed, she asked DHS for an addition 4k which was approved and there's sweet FA I can do about it.
If we act on our own there's not much we can do but as a group we are strong but I need everyone's support.
I intend to organise a national rally on the 3 rd of September through CFMEU since a majority of CFMEU members are "clients" of CSA.
My intention in Brisbane is to start rally at CSA office @ 400 George Street and make our way to DHS 100 Creek Street and then on to new DHS office @ 140 Elizabeth Street to highlight how dysfunctional current legislation is.
I no longer call CSA, I e mail the minister Alan.firstname.lastname@example.org which then gets passed on to Lorna Andres the nation client manager who's on a salary of around 400k a year to copy n paste letters. They hate it but not illegal. Get everyone you know dealing with CSA to do the same.
I send one or two every day he he.
Christmas will have a skeleton staff so this is a good time to bombard them and keep going hard into the new year and make them work for their money.
I've also engaged Chris Wellman and Associates to deal with CSA.
Chris is a former CSA worker who knows the legislation better than any of us and is a good guy.
His web is mychildsupport.com.au
When e mailing the minister, cc Bill Shorten.. Why?
Let's make it an election issue.
Questions, feel free to e mail me email@example.com
The time for change is NOW
Is rent income, although negatively gear, is added to gross income right which is what they work out your assessment right? Am i better to get rid of it? Thanks
For me the state backed bandits that bully the good Dads who want to do right for their children whilst pandering to self serving mother, whilst feckless fathers leave caring mothers to struggle for the basics.
The Government does not see fit to link CSA demands to Family Court injustice meaning a mother ( most often) will with hold the children so the erroneous organisation sees the mother as a sole carer when, as in my case, this is not always the case with joint residency and shared care as part of what has proved to be a worthless court order yet if they refunded the £35,000 wasted here I could then pay the CSA but from the perspective of a caring and loving dad all be it now deemed ‘absent’ you can’t have it twice yet even on a meager wage they still demand more so you are compelled to take refuge at the JSA,
Where is our Justice?
I have learned of 3 suicides by fathers in just this past week due to the unreasonable strain brought on by this inconsistency of Family Court and CSA how many more lives need to be lost before something is done , I changed my campaign title to
Justice4Children some years ago as it was clear then as it is today nobody gives a damn about Fathers! (they seeming are not that concerned for Children’s justice either especially if they want their dad in their life!) https://www.facebook.com/groups/151760278265682/
CSA are NO help. All you can do is suck it up until the kids are old enough so that you don;t need to pay enymore......and if your ex is anything like mine, they'll apply for the over 18 child support too for the 4 months it takes my eldest to finsh school.....just gotta laugh!
For starters, he's paid for legal aid to try get even just a little bit more time with his kids. Now he's in debt, doesn't earn much and is only allowed 4 hours a fortnight to see the kids.
I'm unemployed but looking for work, hopefully one paying well enough that I can help him.
We're super worried that this is going to go horribly wrong anyway because simply put, he's a man. A father who has been poorly accused and been made to jump through burning hoops but still just a human being.
Imagine what this is doing to his poor kids!??? I never wanted children so much until I met him and now I want to protect them !
Need some advice if you can respond it would be great
I religiously have paid child support for my 14 & 16 year old until I was made redundant in late May 2017. Since then I haven't seen my kids as apparently they refuse to come now ( coincides with me not paying maintenance ) as this has happened before 2 years ago when the same thing happened
My question is two fold?
1. Do I still have to pay full child support ( based on zero care ) even if I have family court orders stating I'm supposed to get 35% care or 128 nights per annum? If so, This would mean on earning $160K (she earns $80K ) according to CSA Calculator I would have to pay her $2900 per month? Is that right? Since when do kids cost this per month?
2. What can I do to reduce this as going through family court resulted in me being told to go to family councilling! This woman has totally damaged my relationship with my kids for years - any advice great fully received
I went through all the avenues to fight same scenario. Reason 8, no good, CS help australia, cost me 1k for them to make a phone call and write a letter, no good. Administrative Tribunal with overwhelming evidence and the csa law on my side....still lost. I now just cop the fact the ex left a well paid job to start own business and claims under thresh hold every year, 26k and doubled my payments. She apparently can afford to renovate a house and adding 2 extra rooms and private schooling on this income. The AAT female judge èven tried to coax her to claim more school fees from me during initial 3 way phone interview. It was then I knew I was up against it even before the hearing date. My wife and I after trying every avenue for a fair and equitable outcome, have now resigned to live with it and be happy rather than stress. The system enables vindictive and greedy mothers to use the system. Unfortunately, all the great things like camp trips and holidays I used to do with my sons have now ceased due to affordability. Cheers AAT, good luck dads.
Like many on this forum, I have had a terrible experience at the hands of the CSA.
I would like to see the Change of Assessment process changed or abolished, as it currently gives the CSA far to much power to arbitrarily set the paying parents Income, and therefore Child Support Amount.
There is anecdotal evidence that 21 fathers take their own lives each week as a result of these rulings, however nothing seems to change.
It is my belief that if concrete evidence supports these statistics, government would be more inclined to change the process.
To this end I have contacted the data department at the CSA and asked them to provide me with the deceased statistics for the past 3 years, specifically with regard to parents undergoing COA, review or AAT processes.
The CSA is prepared to supply the report, but have quoted me a figure of $7,000 to perform the work. Which I do not have.
Is anybody on this forum aware of any Not for Profit organizations that could asdist with this ?
it's so frustrating and so unfair that once it's on paper their response is - sorry sir you need to pay, we can work out a payment arrangement but that will cost you an additional $40 a month.
Yeap, thanks for that. Try and do the right thing and you get to live on the bones of your ass for the next 12mths until you catch up on your own expenses.
I'd just like to remind people it is not just men that lay child support . Women pay too.
My ex has full care of our 15 year old. Who is mostly alienated from me . I left the man because I was was not happy being the bread winner with him working very little. Now I have my 18 year d who I support and oY full amount for 15 year old . So he wins again. At the end of the day with his low income , my child support and family tax he will have a bigger income than me .
Oh and did I mention he inherited money that doesn't count in the assessment
So I feel your pain boys .
My ex does the same thing. She normaly works for 1.5 to 2 years max at her max " capacity to earn" ,but I'm paying the top amount to her cause its based on her centerlink income, because she does her tax return after she quits/looses her job. I have given csa her employers information etc. And they do nothing with it and don't demand back pay from her cause by the time she does her tax return she is back on centerlink and they wont recover the money from her cause she is on centerlink benefits.
You must remember its a bullshit barbaric system designed to devide and conquer and create hatred amongst people.
The cs formula should be the mothers "capacity to earn" ×2- (self support for mother/father ) ×18% (one child) ÷2= what father should pay.
And it should be for the whole time of the cs payments.
Yeah she may choose to stay on centerlink her whole life but at least you paid exactly half for the support of your child and it will eliminate a lot of the bullshit.
I am the wife of a very good man who regularly and religiously pays his monthly child support, based on assessments for both he and his ex/wife. Recently his ex-wife accepted a well paid full time job (approx $65k per annum) which is great, but she is refusing to declare this to CSA, which according to their guidelines is omitting to declare a change of income, while still receiving the full CS amount based on assessments calculated 4 years ago - surely this is fraud. We have reported this numerous times to CSA but it falls on deaf ears. We are incredibly frustrated!
What are the repercussions if he stops paying CS? Does she need to get a court order to garnish his wage? Willl there be additional financial penalties? We simply want to shock his former wife to stop "double-dipping " and get justice.
Welcome your thoughts and experience.
So here is my plan in short we start a new church(Church of BS as I am not reliegous) but will use the rules
Where by you donate all you income to it .... then we have a so call Mass(prey metting) and say "Dave" donated $500 we pray for Dave to have his rent/food/car paid for.... the church then makes a mercy payment to all Dave's need... Now this system would pay no tax as the churches are tax exempt ... Dave would personally claim a small income say $18000 a year to and show he is working this will keep the CSA wolves at bay... ie Dave pays a minimum amount per year to the CSA( or a lot less then he would without his generosity to the Church of BS.
1. More then likely you would have to work for the Church of BS
IE the Church invoices your normal paycheck to the employer... the church then employs you and work cover and so on...
You would need renegotiate with your current employer this way the church dictates your income to CSA mongrels.
I think most bosses would think it be ok if not you move on to another job.
2. Probably need an ordain priest to run it to legitimizes the church. Remember we are not trying to break laws but use the current laws against the BS system.
3. Critical mass... we need x amount of members to make it all work....
No Gov is going to say it is not real ... ie we must believe in making the payment and receiving help from the lord...(remember I am not religious) but if I received help with all my bills paid ... I might believe.
The beauty about this system is that not a thing the Gov could do about it unless the churches/charities where attacked... And no Gov would dare do that...
Im in the same boat as most of you dealing with CSA and the courts, im a fairly level headed bloke when it comes to this crap we deal with, if you are thinking on how to change things then you need to get behind your computers and start typing, i mean emails to politicians, emails to the DSS (Department of social services) they are the governing body on the legislation which creates this system. If all of us type our realistic problems without abuse :) then things will change. Dont be afraid to write to Pollies, i wrote an email to a conservative pollie and had a reply email in less than an hour with another reply to come and speak with him 3 days later. Just keep cool headed and think straight and keep it to realistic problems and it will work.
Im no expert im just a normal tradie!
You must learn to help yourselves.
If you are dealing with CSA then you must learn to play the game. Understand the rules of the game and the end goals. An analogy is like playing the game of AFL football. CSA is a professional team that knows the rules and can even bend or change the rules when it suits them. They practise all the time and have huge resources to get what they want. We are the other team that have wandered onto the oval, unorganised and as individuals are not a cohesive team. We have limited resources and do not know the rules of the game but must play anyway. You my think you know what is going on but in fact you do not. Even blind Freddie can see the outcome of this game. If you do not understand the players and the game then you will never understand why you are in the position that you are. Your aim should be to take back some control of the game and your life.
Know your opponents and what they actually want. CSA is a faceless bureaucratic machine that has no interest what so ever in you, your ex or your children's welfare. They do not care if you are broke or hungry or living in your car. They only have one goal and that is to reduce the amount of money that the government has to pay out in social services payments. The more you pay the less they pay.
The rules of the game are very convoluted and I doubt anyone knows them all. Your aim should be to get an understanding of the rules that apply to your situation. They are all on the internet but you must dig to find them then try to understand them. Reading forums can help but also cause confusion. Many have their own ideas on what should happen but are in actual fact wrong. CSA are quite happy the rules are complicated because then when you give up out of frustration they have won the game. Taking back some control of this game takes a large amount of effort and time at first. It may involve great changes in your life but as with everything else you do you only get out what you are prepared to put into it. It is your life and only you can do something about it. Screaming at and abusing CSA is like pissing into the wind. The only person covered in piss is you. Concern yourself with the things that you can change and do not get hung up on the things that you cannot change. It is not an overnight fix and I suspect most will not even bother. For those that do though there is the reward of a more stable life that you now have some control over.
Remember you are the foundation of your life. You are the most important one. Do what you need to do to survive and be strong. Everything else comes after this.
can any father who works in a business and is being overcharged by the government for child support
Can I get deductions because I am buying goods and items including truck to carry on with my business
Child support payments it overwhelming me and I am having trouble carrying on earning a living can anyone help me with
I AM FEELING OVERWHELMED
Just a thought provoking comment i would like to make.
If a small homosexual lobby representing a tiny minority of homosexuals can force the gov tards to force us to accept their bogus marriage plebiscite and votes etc etc, to add wasting tax payers money on it.
Then why cant the huge amount of people,father's groups ,church groups? , suicide statistics ,letters,various surveys and constant outcry by the fathers of this nation ....make any difference to this barbaric family flaw/child support crime syndicate?